1. Regkam2 wrote:

Melissa, what does loving ourselves have to do with effectively dealing with police brutality/racism in this country? This seems like a cop out on your part for not knowing what to do or too scare to face whats going on. I agree that we should love ourselves, but we will face this same problem.

Marc, we will should do is 1st relearn to live amongst each other again. Blacks are so scattered in this country that we can’t be unified if we can live near each other. There are too few Black communities in America where we know our neighbors and have each others back. I know everyone has a right to reside where one wants, but if we are seeking power and respect in America, we have to reside amongst our own or continue to suffer. If we take a look at other ethnic group, they choose to live amongst their own which increases their ability to effect what goes on in their neighborhood and with their children.

2nd, we must control the economics of our communities. Stop spending 98% of our monies with everyone else but our own and pull our $$$ to create schools, industries, rites of passages, clinics, etc. No people will get respect until they do for self. Blacks in America are the biggest joke to everyone else regardless of class or income. America is ran and control by economics. Mayer Amschel Rothschild said it best ” Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes her laws.”

3rd, we must train and develop our young males how to become men. This will not happen until we (Black male adults) learn how to become better men and take back our families, our neighborhoods, and our schools. Rites of passage programs (for us and for our young males). Black families have too few men who have principles and spines. This is why we have so many weak leaders. Its time to MAN Up!!

4th, Stop MARCHING and come up with different strategies to fight (i.e. economic boycotts and creation of more industries, more Black political action committees, more Black political lobbies that work for the interests of Black people, less religion and more spirituality). Also, we can police our own. What I mean is that we must put ourselves in a more favorable light. We can keep each other in check by talking to each other (friends and families) and hold each other accountable.

5th, relearn our African history and culture and realized that every American ritual is not for US. Blacks are caught in too much partying, drinking, screwing, over-consuming and other vices that we have picked up since our enslavement in this country. We need to stop trying too become Europeans and start back loving our African selves. American lifestyle is not working for the majority population so what do u think its doing to us?

6th, We have to come to grips that police will only stop killing us when they FEAR us enough to know that if they take one of our children out, they will suffer physically. I know that many will disagree, but power only respect its own. A black officer will never get away with killing a white male without suffering the repercussions of the white community. they will not wait on the law. Now, am I talking about riots, no. There are a million ways to get retribution without a whole community going up in flames.
We tried non-violence for the past 40 yrs and where did it get us? Do we have any more respect from the authorities since they took out King and Malcolm?

2. Janet wrote:

Regkam2: you are on it this morning!!! Melissa totally missed the point. I love myself but it wont stop a damn cop from shooting me dead…

3. ChgoSista wrote:

Your points 3 & 4: YOU BETTA PREEEEAACHHH!!

4. Ann wrote:

Marc should have addressed his question to Regkam2 because he brought the funk….

~Ann~

5. Cézsar wrote:

Regkam2, you put your finger on a lot of hot spots there. Good on you homey. I especially like these two points: “rites of passage” and “re-learn our African history”. You know, I am African, and it makes me happy to see this new generation of AFRICAN-Americans/Europeans start to wake up to this fact. Malcolm X preached it to no end; that, “you cannot hate the roots of a tree”, OR as I say it – a tree cannot survive without it’s roots; no way, no sir, no how.

Rites of passage is what AFRICANS do! Societal structures of respect, knowledge & culture for both manhood and womanhood that have been in place since before the European colonizer became self-conscious. There is nothing new to learn Afro-American/European, it is all there, in your African home for you to just re-connect with.

Now that Black America/Europe is waking up to the fact that “African peoples are not deficient, just different”, as brilliantly stated by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and that without BEING ONE’S SELF FULLY (that includes accepting your AFRICAN-NESS) we will never be thoroughly respected, maybe change is about to come after all.

You see for far too long we’ve been trying to pass off the white man’s culture to the white man as ours, and of course at this they have to laugh; it’s like you trying to be me better than me – it aint gonna happen, just stop it, you will only ever go so far.

Einstein said: “you cant solve a problem using the same steps you used to create it”. The HUMAN problem the world faces at the moment was created by European, and now European-American white mentality and culture…it just cant be fixed using the same thinking. We have to inject some ETHNICITY into the Western soul like ether! Either that, or more bitching and moaning and jokes at our expense.

And since justice is what love looks like in public, when the Black cup runneth over with love for self and other, I assure there will be no marching, the adversary will dis-arm and dis-engage at the realisation that “He who is aware, IS!”. What a sight to behold! The adversary will kneel in repentance and instinctively know the futility of resistance.

Ponder on that my Beloved.

6. DCI74 wrote:

You make some good points Regkam2 but I don’t see how these issues if addressed will prevent me from becoming the next Sean Bell. The question was ‘what do we do?’ but none of this will change the perception of fear towards black men that some cops have or that some lawyers and judges share. The fact that I live in black neighborhood or support black businesses will not serve as a protective factor the next time I get pulled over. The only thing that will save my life during a traffic stop is the same thing that has saved my life so far, remembering what my father told me about what to do and what not to do when you get pulled over. All this other stuff is good but to me is more about empowering black people and communities but none of those things can completely change a person’s bias or prejudice when placed in a potentially volatile situation.

7. ea wrote:

With all due respect, I think the wrong points are being emphasized in all of the recent articles about this case. Whether or not Sean Bell’s murderers had been convicted would not have brought Sean Bell back to life. While a conviction was the only appropriate outcome, I think outrage at the verdict, though understandable, is slightly misdirected (sadly, I kind of expected this ruling). The reasons that Sean Bell’s killers were acquitted are the same reasons that Sean Bell was killed in the first place. Namely, that the state is not a neutral entity and clearly represents the interests of one group in society at the expense of the other.

I think the focus in the aftermath of this ruling (and with the many similar rulings that likely lie ahead) needs to be on building a movement at the grassroots level that can pose a challenge to the very forces that allowed Sean Bell to die that morning.

8. Tanya wrote:

…

9. Tanya wrote:

Regkam2,

When are you running for office???

Your examination and analysis of the circumstances and suggestions for resolve are absolutely key! Points 3 & 5 where especially profound. Thank you for this!

It is not often that I agree with Melissa, but I do agree with her response here. GOD is love, and love makes the world go round. I think that we as black people have been stagnant in our progression and succession because of our lack of love for self and others. And it is our lack of progress and lack of ambition, that causes white people to fear us, and want to get rid of us.

Maybe if Sean Bell loved himself and his soon-to-be-wife more, he would not have been at the strip club that night. Maybe if the stripers loved themselves more there would have been no strip club to go to. Maybe if Sean’s friends loved him more they would have gathered with him in prayer and reflection to help give him faith and strength to enter his new life as a husband, and not taken him out to celebrate his last night as a single.

This one last night of wild, crazy sin is the filthy European’s idea of a bachelor’s party.

Years ago African men, especially the elders, would gather with the young groom the night before his wedding to share their wisdom for pleasing a wife – physically, emotionally, sexually; and give guidance and advice on raising a family. They would pray with the groom and help calm his nerves. Why did we alter this tradition to follow the white man’s sick ways? Maybe because we didn’t love ourselves enough!

The only way Regkam2’s perfect points can effectively work is if we, as Melissa indicated, love ourselves more. We have to learn to offer unconditional love to ourselves and our fellow black man. (all men really) Only then can we overcome and prevent injustice.

I prayer for Sean and his family. I believe some good will come of this. GOD allows things to happen For us and not To us.

10. Clifton Harrison wrote:

Regkam2 had many valid points, much respect for that.

Tanya, we can not work in “maybe’s” and “if’s”. For far too long, we have been waiting, hoping that somebody will lead, that someone will be the new Malcolm, or Dr. King Jr. We can no longer wait.

We can no longer live in fear as DCI74 suggested. Myself, and many I know get a sense of fear anytime we see red and blue lights flashing behind us while driving.

We can no longer present ourselves as non-threatening in hopes that we will make the police treat us fairly (while the mere sight of them can send us into a state of terror and fear).

If anyone has not seen the clip, here is Obama speaking on the Sean Bell verdict/situation (around 3 minutes and 11 seconds):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYXb4_ej7U

You can make judgement on his answers, but i was very dissappointed. Some have stated that he can’t make a clear stance because he has to appeal to everyone. My response to that is that we don’t need a President to half-way stand up for what’s right. Either you stand up proud, or sit yo ass down. Plain and Simple.

I also feel that the lack of response from the other candidates (Hilary or McCain) indicates how much they value our voice.

I think we (oppressed people, not just blacks) need to police and protect ourselves (much like Regkam2’s 4th point). Outside of policing ourselves within the communities, we need to all protect each other from the Justice system and the Police organizations that are killing us.

Clif

11. DCI74 wrote:

“Maybe if Sean Bell loved himself and his soon-to-be-wife more, he would not have been at the strip club that night.”

Tanya are you serious? So by going to a bachelor party, which traditionally most people attend as part of the upcoming nuptials, somehow Sean was showing lack of love for his fiancée? How is the location of the party an indication of his feelings for himself or his fiancée? Seems like an enormous stretch to me. Europeans did not create the tradition of the groom and wife having a party to celebrate their upcoming union and let’s not forget that Africa is a continent not a country therefore there is no standard tradition pre-wedding tradition that all Africans follow or continue to follow today.

12. ChgoSista wrote:

I feel u Tonya, really I do–but Mr. Bell could’ve been coming out of ANY kind of establishment and encountered a run-in with the police. Things are just THAT volatile.

I also don’t think it’s fair to say a man doesn’t love his fiancee’ if he does the ‘bachelor party’ thang. Yes, some men don’t care for the parties with the strippers, but that doesn’t make them any better, guarantees more faithfulness, etc., than the bruhs who DO.

Granted the TYPE or LOCATION of the establishment might INCREASE things, but still…Ya know?

13. DCI74 wrote:

Thank you Chgo, I know it wasn’t just me that felt that way. I know guys (self included) that have had run-ins with cops everywhere: the car wash, outide of the bank, in a gas station parking lot, etc. Cops with an ax to grind or an itchy trigger finger are everywhere.

14. Seely wrote:

Cezsar I appreciated your response. Your point about American-Afrikans knowing, understanding and going back to their own Afrikan culture was on point. Too many Afrikans today don’t even want to admit that they are, in fact, Afrikan! Until we embrace this though, and the cornerstone of Afrikan thought,which is ma’at (truth, justice, reciprocity,etc.) we will suffer. For ma’at is moral, ethical and everything in between. When we believe and embrace this, our lives and actions will reflect it. Our moral compasses will then be engaged and we will do right by our youth, by each other, thus planting the seeds that will produce the fruit that we are SO starved for.

15. Tanya wrote:

DC & ChgoSista – I appreciate your feedback.

DC – it seems as though the underline premise of my point has completely evaded you! I’ll try to reduce my expression to its simplest form.

People engage in destructive behavior only because, at the very most, they have a minimal level of love for themselves, and often they have a lack of love, on a high level, and a lack of concern for those around them.

Stripe clubs are venues where sexual immorality is exploited for financial gain.

Sexual immorality within itself is destructive. Destructive to the mind, body and most importantly the spirit. Sexual immorality for financial gain is the pinnacle of self destruction.

Therefore, stripe clubs are destructive, period. In my humble opinion there is no sensible and spiritually sound adult who can deny this.

So, yes, I am very serious when I say that if Sean loved himself and his fiancée MORE (more being the operative word here), he would NOT have spent the night before he engaged in the holy sacrament of matrimony, in the stripe club. I believe that a man who has a girlfriend/wife that enters a stripe club is disrespecting his girlfriend/wife, and since respect is the highest level of love, YES, that represents a deficiency of love.

Further, just because many people do go to stripe clubs or have parties with stripers and call it a bachelor’s party, does not mean that is the definition of a bachelor’s party, and moreover does not mean that it is right.

In addition, I never indicated that European’s created the tradition of the groom and wife having a party to celebrate their upcoming union. I stated, “This one last night of wild, crazy sin is the filthy European’s idea of a bachelor’s party.” For the record, going out and getting high and drunk and playing with strippers is not a way to celebrate a forthcoming union.

Also, I am fully aware that Africa is continent. Are you fully aware that all of the countries in Africa, though consist of different languages, religions and customs, are all bound by a common thread; and are often referred to in the collective, as Africa. If you go north, south, east or west in Africa, you will find that it is common place for the elder woman and the elder men to gather with the respective bride and groom to share the “secrets” of a successful marriage; to celebrate love and the joining of two people in the most sacred of ways = marriage. This is not only present in all African countries, but in every country in the world. It is a universal norm to join with the bride and groom before their wedding to help prepare them for marriage. However, it was the Europeans who interjected this “night of lust” and raunchy behavior into civilization as a way to enjoy the night before a wedding. This was not the original, proper, or African way. (Read Regkam2’s 5th point and take heed.)

Lastly, incidents of police brutality, harassment, excessive force, and police inflicted death, can occur at anytime, anywhere, to anyone. But when have you ever heard of a well dressed black man leaving a church getting harassed by the police, or more poignantly, getting shot in front of a church??? Criminals often have a certain look, style of dress, and frequent certain locations, i.e. – stripe clubs, night clubs, high crime areas, and street corners. And it is only prudent for a police officer to be skeptical in these situations. So word to the wise, if you want to avoid a run in with the law, love yourself enough to carry yourself well groomed and with respect, be respectful to the people you encounter, and stay away from high traffic criminal parts. Simple.

In conclusion, the Bible states that the “Wages of sin, is death”. We all sin, and we all will die, but some people die to cause us to change the way we live. Sean Bell very well may be one of those people. And that was the entire point of my original statement.

Thanks for your time.

16. Regkam2 wrote:

Tanya, PREACH!!!!!! Law of reciprocity and laws of Ma’at.

17. Regkam2 wrote:

DCI74 states ” You make some good points Regkam2 but I don’t see how these issues if addressed will prevent me from becoming the next Sean Bell. The question was ‘what do we do?’ but none of this will change the perception of fear towards black men that some cops have or that some lawyers and judges share. The fact that I live in black neighborhood or support black businesses will not serve as a protective factor the next time I get pulled over.”

I think that you miss the points that I read. I ask that u reread them again. I am talking about obtaining POWER. America is ruled by wealth and power. The golden rule is those who control the gold rules. Let me give you an example, a few yrs ago in LA, a Korean male enters a bank to withdraw some money. A misunderstanding occurs and the Korean male is arrested. A few hrs later all of the Koreans who have money in that particular bank comes to the bank to withdraw their money. The Korean male who was arrested is immediately let go and a couple of days later the president of that bank writes of letter of apology to the Korean community in LA and all charges are immediately dropped. This also sets a precedence in which this particular incident will not happen again in the near future. Another example is that during WWII, Nagasaki and Hiroshima is bombed by the USA. The Japanese is defeatist and signs a treaty in which they can’t build back up their military. What do they do? Study US industry and infrastructure, master the auto industry and become powerful economically. Thats power. This is the gist of my comments…Blacks obtaining power. when that occurs, I don’t care whether a cop likes me or not, if he sees me as a powerful entity The only thing that will, he will deal with me differently. Many whites don’t like their Jewish counterparts, but I bet you that they want F*$K with them for fear of retribution. Its not about ridding someone’s prejudice, but whether that person respects u enough or what you represent to know not to take your life w/o endangering his own.

18. Regkam2 wrote:

Sorry about my typos in the previous statements.

19. Tanya wrote:

Amen Regkem2!

The Korean banking issue was an excellent example. That was the whole idea behind “Power to the People”. So many black people run around raising their fists screaming Power to the People but they have absolutely no idea what it means, or how you get there. It is so very sad. Why are so many black people so blindly ignorant!

Lord I prayer for us! “My people shall perish for a lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your GOD, I also will forget your child.” (Hosea 4:6) – Word of the Lord, Thanks be to GOD!

20. DCI74 wrote:

Tanya on some parts we do agree, however much of what you stated is clearly based on your moral and biblical compass which differs from countless other people. Unlike you I did not make an attempt to pass judgment on the choices of Sean Bell or his friends that fatal evening. In spite of your beliefs this is not about sexual morality, behavior, immorality or whether or not strip clubs are right it’s about police misuse of power, plan and simple. I don’t pretend to know Sean or his fiancee so I’m not in a position to talk about their love or lack thereof for each other, only they and those closest to them are privy to that information. Amadou Diallo was on his way home from work when he was killed, I was dressed in a suit numerous times when being harassed by cops so you can’t directly correlate clothing attire and location with a propensity for police violence. No matter what I have on or where I am I realize I am deemed a threat and that doesn’t change if I’m in a tux or Timbs.

Interesting anecdote Regkam2 about the Korean in LA and while to some degree it does show the power of power it’s truly apples and oranges. Koreans in America do not share the same history of overt and institutionalized racism that we have experienced, therefore they do not have the same barriers we have in relation to obtaining that power. As you know I don’t make excuses this is merely an undeniable. Can we as black people learn from the examples of others that have successfully changed their lot in life and gained some significant power? Of course, but it can’t understated that the history we have in this country makes obtaining that kind of power easier said than done.

21. Miss Martin wrote:

i agree DC!

22. Regkam2 wrote:

DC174, we have done this before (Black Wall street, Rosewood, and Idlewild, Mich to name a few) so I am not just pointing out the examples of others per se. I just gave u an example of how we can change how we react to police brutality. Again, when u understand what make America tick, u know that at the bottom of all people’s activities (education, entertainment, religion, sex, war, culture, politics, labor, and law), economics is the foundation. In order to change our current situation, we must become POWERFUL!! We keep dealing with symptoms, but not the problem. Nothing else matters.

Now, once again, if u reread my posts, I also included that at sometime in the near future, Black people (particularly men) are going to have to DEFEND themselves and stop this path of least resistance (marching, non-violence singing ‘We shall Overcome’). History bears witness that whenever the oppress has had enough with being oppressed, they rise up to overthrow the oppressor (French Revolution, Haiti Revolution, American Revolution, etc.).

23. james wrote:

regkam2, successful revolutions need significant backing from the middle-class to work. how are you proposing poor blacks DEFEND themselves against the police, which contain many blacks in their ranks?

or are you proposing all blacks overthrow the government entirely, which is also made up of many blacks? you do realize that the revolutions you mention were not racialized affairs; they were based strictly on class warfare.

do you really believe any organized violent black revolution would have any success in america in the near future?

24. james wrote:

oh, forgive me, i see you’re talking about boycotts. how will boycotts change police behavior? what exactly will you be boycotting to influence better police behavior?

25. DCI74 wrote:

Thanks Miss Martin.

Regkam2 I read all of your posts twice and trust me I get what you are saying, I was a business major so I know full well the power of economics. I’m just going back to answering the original question of ‘what do we do now?’ The 15-year-old kid in my program doesn’t see or even understand the link between police brutality and economics, what he needs to know is ‘how do I stay alive when I’m around cops?’ Telling him about your scenario in LA is not going to help him in the now and that is my focus, if anything that story is a great segue to explain to him the importance of having a bank account and understanding the power of finances. Much of what you mentioned I completely agree with but I see your points as an overall ‘breaking the chains of mental slavery’ plan which is great. But for right now I have to talk to these kids about staying calm and how to avoid being a hothead when stopped by police so they don’t end up in a body bag.

26. vale wrote:

DCI74, please kindly list what you tell the youth concerning encounters with the police. This may be helpful to any youth reading this thread.

27. DCI74 wrote:

vale, I break it down into 2 categories: on the street and in a car.

I tell all the kids I work with that if they are stopped by a police officer on the street first things first don’t run. Following that I advise them to keep their hands out of their pockets, avoid getting defensive or aggressive, always give eye contact and only speak when asked a question, save all that extra talk for another time.

If they are stopped in a car I give them the same advice my father gave me: (1) keep your hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel, (2) don’t unbuckle your seatbelt or turn off the car until the cop approaches the car, (3) turn on all interior lights, (4) don’t make any sudden movements, (5) turn off the radio if it’s on, (5) as you’re reaching for you license and paperwork let the cop know exactly where it is located so again there are no surprises, (6) lastly say very little and there’s a chance you may live to see another day.

That advice has worked for me, it hasn’t shielded me from harassment by cops but I haven’t yet given them a reason to ask me to get out of the car, so far I’ve been able to keep it moving. (knock on wood)

28. vale wrote:

Okay DCI74,that sounds very good. Would it also be helpful to hear this from a police officer via a youth seminar on “Policing: What Should and Shouldn’t Happen” and invite a lawyer whose versed in this area to encourage the kids to obey the law, know the law (loitering for instance) and what their legal rights are, ie. where to go for help, what to do, who to contact, etc. if their rights are infringed upon? From the horse’s mouth, so to speak. Something more or less proactive as well.

My nephew stated last week, “This is a free country, I know my rights” but after discussions with various relatives he discovered quite surprisingly that he didn’t. He wasn’t in a situation where his rights were being challenged but I shudder to think about him in a situation where his assumptions were incorrect. He’s such an innocent and sort of optimistically naive.

29. DCI74 wrote:

Actually vale I just participated in an event this month strictly for young men that are in the care of the department of children and families, it was a rites of passage conference and we covered much of what Regkam2 mentioned. One of the panelists was a civil rights attorney and she talked about her experience dealing with clients who’s rights were violated, it was very informative and the young men were quite receptive to the information.

Sadly vale I work with a lot of young men that share the same perspective with regards to their rights that your nephew embraced. Many of them frankly don’t know what they don’t know and without various programs and supportive adults around them they will continue to be unaware of their lack of valuable knowledge. It’s a never-ending struggle but I’m committed to the cause for the long haul. I can’t worry about politicians or talking heads trying to save these kids and show them another way, we have to do it ourselves.

30. Tanya wrote:

DC- I realize that when people do wrong things and someone addresses it, often times they feel “judged”. My expression of opposition or dissatisfaction with someone’s actions or behavior is not a finger-in-the-face, you are condemned, judgment. It’s just my opinion.

I try very hard to live a decent, clean life, and it is very important to me, and I do, because I desire and need GOD’s favor. But I know many people do not try to live a decent and clean life and GOD still loves us all very much and the very same. Therefore, we are ALL on the same level. So how can I pass judgment on someone who is on the same level as me? So please understand that I was not trying to pass judgment on Sean or anyone in the situation.

Next – “You can put lipstick on a pig, but that won’t make the pig a lady.” – Source Unknown.

You can put a criminal in a suit, but he is still a criminal. Avoiding harassment from the police is not just about changing your attire; it’s about changing your character and your mentality, it’s about changing your lifestyle. Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.

While I do believe that racial profiling and racist, bigoted ways dictate police activity. I can’t ignore the following:

1.Bell had been arrested three times, twice for drug dealing and once for a firearms possession.

2.Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield, who were also shot in the incident, had been arrested nine and three times, respectively, each having been arrested at least once for illegal firearm possession.

3.These three men where at a stripe club in a high crime area that was being investigated for prostitution.

4.I am black and I have a huge family, practically all males. The majority of my male family members live in NY, as do I. NONE of them, not 1 single 1 of them have ever been pulled over and harassed by the police. NONE of them have ever had a negative encounter with the cops. All of my family members are college educated, gainfully employed, well groomed men with a positive demeanor. And NONE of them have a criminal record.

5.I have been pulled over several times, and rightfully so. I am a speed demon. I never drove the speed limit (my vice), and almost always the cops that pull me over have been white. I have never, ever felt harassed or wronged by the cops. In fact, I always found them nice and fair. But that might just be because I was always nice to them first, and I’m pretty damn good looking! Lol

These five bullets are striking. (no pun intended) And it shows a pattern that needs to be acknowledged.

DC, I listen to some of your radio post and you seem like a good guy, but based on my experiences, I have to ask myself: If you have had so many negative experiences with the cops, what might you be doing wrong? Why are they reading you the wrong way and treating you like a criminal?

Also, I think the advice you give for surviving a police stop is excellent and very thorough. However, it merely subsides a symptom and does nothing to eradicate the disease. The way black men act, dress and live, is a disease, and it’s killing the whole black community.

Regkem2 offered a possible cure for the disease.

31. DCI74 wrote:

Tanya as I stated previously in my experience with young people I have to be just as concerned about the now, the present as well as ideals for the future. I have not negated what Regkam2 laid out, it’s a precise plan to greater economic and social power for black people in this country but it is a plan that requires numerous steps all of which are important and highly comprehensive. However this doesn’t mean anything to a young man when he gets accosted by some cop with an attitude. Telling him about a Korean bank incident in LA will not apply. Encouraging him to buy black and live around black people is not the immediate information they need, they want realistic advice that can be applied the next time a cop is in their face. All those other things are valuable but aren’t applicable at that time.

I never stated that advice is the end-all-to-be-all answer and you’re right it is a band-aid on a bullet wound, but small steps in rethinking behavior is crucial to ensuring there will be less Sean Bells and that is my sole perspective. I share my experience and knowledge in business and real estate with my kids and we talk about the dynamics of power and the dollar so they are getting information that can use to make their lives and those of their families better but I have to balance that with advice they need to use today not 5 years from now.

“DC, I listen to some of your radio post and you seem like a good guy, but based on my experiences, I have to ask myself: If you have had so many negative experiences with the cops, what might you be doing wrong? Why are they reading you the wrong way and treating you like a criminal?”

Thank you. So let me address this, what might I have been doing wrong? Well in many instances I was simply a black man and if you come a family with lots of men this should not surprise you. I’ve been give the “you fit the description” speech more times than I can count, yet once my ID is checked and they realize I don’t have a criminal or even arrest record, it’s eventually wrapped up. Those that know me well will tell you I have a very calm relaxed demeanor, far from a hothead so I know how to handle myself around cops and am sure to not do anything that make the situation volatile.

32. Tanya wrote:

DC,

Dear you are just NOT getting it!!!

You stated, “…They want realistic advice that can be applied the next time a cop is in their face.” The whole point is to give them the tools so that the cops NEVER get in their face in the first place. NOT how to deal with the cops being in your face.

Teach the kids NOT to fit the description of a criminal the cops are looking for. No one said tell the kids about the Korean Bank issue – that’s for adults to take guidance from. Tell the kids to go to the library and not to hang on the street corner. Kids on the street corner get harassed by cops, not kids in the library.

You didn’t even address my 5 points. Sean Bell and his friends were criminals in a criminal area. Don’t put yourself in a situation where the cops are going to get in your face. The cops had a right to be skeptical of them. (but not a right to empty 50 shots) Why hasn’t anyone in my family had this negative experience with the cops??? And you said it yourself, your problem is you fit the description of a criminal, so change your description brother. Why are you looking like a criminal??????

There are a lot of 6′1, medium built, dark skin brothers. But if that is the description of the man who robbed the bank last week, the cops are not going to pull over every 6′1, medium built, dark skin brother; just the ones who look like they could or would rob a bank.

You want those kids to learn how not to be the next Sean Bell, well tell them not to sell drugs, illegally possess a firearm and not to hang in high crime areas!!!! – PERIOD!!!
Damn, I want to take those kids from you and bring them up properly!!!!!

33. Tanya wrote:

DC you stated:

“…What might I have been doing wrong? Well in many instances I was simply a black man and if you come a family with lots of men this should not surprise you.”

That was my whole point, this DOESE SURPRISE ME!!! NONE of the men in my family have ever been harassed by the police or told they fit the description of a criminal.

The reason why black men get harassed by cops is because of how they act, dress and live. Change the way you act, dress and live black men and you WILL change your position and power in America.

34. Swayyde wrote:

whooahh!!!
Dear Ms. Tanya:
“…While I do believe that racial profiling and racist, bigoted ways dictate police activity…”

I’m sorry, I have to say that once you adhere to the word “bigot”, by definition you consequently acknowledge the unavoidable fact that racial/class/gender profiling “bigotry” is an alive and kicking REALITY and always has been. It doesn’t matter how “proper” you act, the “dresscode” of what you wear, or how righteous you live. With all due respect..Jesus!?!? How is that for a reference?

Sometimes situations may depend on where you live, or hang out, but no fool would believe that’s a guarantee to avoiding unruly police scrutiny or brutality. Police, like people, from all walks of life are everywhere!!…with their prejudices, knowledge, tolerance or ignorance… The whole point is that whatever happens, you do your best to be prepared whenever, wherever..

Education and knowledge is preparation, family support is preparation, sense of self-worth and preservation is preparation, upholding proper values and principles is preparation…. all things that are ultimately constructive and have been addressed here in the past couple of days. However, none of those measures constitute in any way, shape or form, guarantees to your personal safety, from police or from anybody for that matter.

How could you want to save kids from DC when obviously he is contributing towards helping youth keep a cool head in very real, highly volatile and quickly violent contexts? Why don’t we start with the parents who don’t tell their kids these things in the first place; that consequently makes DC’s job, presence, advice and contribution priceless? But can he make the world a better place all by himself with what he knows, and teaches? no…

That’s why the actions/suggestions of DC, Regkam2, Hill, etc… and even of yourself, combined, are all important and necessary as they all contribute and represent taking slight but very important steps towards dealing with the present state of surviving, while creating longterm positive change…

…and hopefully sometime within our generation/lifetime.

35. Miss Martin wrote:

Swayyde wrote:

“How could you want to save kids from DC when obviously he is contributing towards helping youth keep a cool head in very real, highly volatile and quickly violent contexts? Why don’t we start with the parents who don’t tell their kids these things in the first place; that consequently makes DC’s job, presence, advice and contribution priceless? But can he make the world a better place all by himself with what he knows, and teaches? no…

That’s why the actions/suggestions of DC, Regkam2, Hill, etc… and even of yourself, combined, are all important and necessary as they all contribute and represent taking slight but very important steps towards dealing with the present state of surviving, while creating longterm positive change…

…and hopefully sometime within our generation/lifetime.”

I say:

“HI FUCKING FIVE SWAYYDE! I really agree with your sentiments”…

36. Tanya wrote:

Swayyde,

Well put! You put together a very clear and concise argument.

However, let’s be clear on three things:

1. When dealing with human beings there are no guarantees.
2. The power of Kindness is infinite.
3. The importance of a balanced education.

First, I must address your reference to Jesus. Totally different situation. Yes, Jesus was more righteous than any of us could ever be. Yes, Jesus did countless good for those around him and all humanity. Yes, Jesus delivered the word and focused on helping and healing. Jesus did all things RIGHT. And Yes, they still persecuted him.

But understand that Jesus came to this earth for 1 purpose, to save us through his death! Jesus declared that he was the Son of Man, the Messiah. That was a very powerful claim. If it wasn’t true, it would of been blasphemy – what still is and was at that time the most heinous and unforgiveable crime. The Romans didn’t believe him, and they were not suppose to. Jesus had to die. He had to die for our sins. It was GOD’s will. It had to happen, Jesus had to suffer.

But we don’t have to suffer. It is not GOD’s will for his people to suffer. Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrifice for the whole world. When people suffer, it’s because they run to suffering, they allow themselves to fall into suffering.

Of course there are no guarantees to avoiding unruly police scrutiny or brutality. But the suggestions I offered will highly increase the chances that you DO avoid unruly police scrutiny or brutality. I just think it is no coincidence that none of the black men in my family have never experienced police scrutiny or brutality, nor have I. Yet all the men we do hear about, and know of, that have, all have a criminal history.

Can you attempt to explain those odds???

As I stated, I am a New Yorker, and I have been pulled over several times for speeding. About 98% of the time the cop pulling me over has been white. Out of all the white cops I have encountered, I know at least 1 of them had to be a racist bigot, just wanting to take me or any black person down. In fact, I believe a good amount of them have.

Every time I have been pulled over I felt annoyed. Even though I knew I was wrong for speeding. However, I understand the power of kindness. Every time the police office has come to my window, he has been clearly annoyed, and justly so. They knock on the window hard, and initially speak in a rude and aggressive manner. However, I would quickly defuse the situation by giving a genuine and kind smile. Say, “Hello Officer! How are you?” And immediately like magic, their whole demeanor towards me would change. Their voice would soften and their guard is lowered. I would apologize for speeding and explain that I was in a rush to get home or to work or to school. Before I knew it, I’ve had a nice chat with the police officer and I’ve turned that enemy into a friend. Both of us always end up laughing and I leave most times without a ticket. Killing them with kindness is like magic!

Don’t get me wrong I think DC is a good dude. His radio show raises important issues and feeds good and important information to the public. I think it is very commendable that he offers his time to the youth and I know his intentions are good. I just truly believe it is detrimental to a child to just teach them how to heal a cut and not teach them how to avoid getting cut in the first place.

DC’s tips on staying calm and reducing your threat value during a police stop is right on point. However, I do not get the impression that he addresses with the children that the reason cops have a reason to pull us over in the first place, is because so many of us do the wrong things and act in the wrong ways. That’s why I would love to holla at the youngings! They need to hear a balanced discussion on how to avoid the cops as well as what to do when encountered by the cops.

I use to speed like crazy and it is wrong. Period. I can admit it. Speeding gave the police a reason to interact with me. But we have a very serious problem in the black community where we can’t admit our wrongs! And we don’t realize we give the police a reason to interact with us. If I had acted like or looked like a criminal during those stops I might have been the topic of this post.

I stopped speeding because I got into a very bad accident where my car flipped over three times and landed on the roof. My lungs collapsed and I almost lost my life. I learned my lesson, and since then (Sept. 2006) I do not speed. And since then I have never been pulled over again.

There is a lesson here in the death of Sean Bell and the children need to learn it.

37. DCI74 wrote:

Thanks Swayde and Miss Martin.

No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops. See most of my kids go to magnet schools that have strict dress code policies so it has nothing to do with their attire when they are still given the third degree while wearing khakis, a button up shirt and a blazer, so all this talk about clothing at least from my perspective is nonsense. I only work with 3 out of about 35 kids that attend schools without a strict dress code policy so your argument holds no weight. Again you seem very caught up in thinking you can identify a criminal by the way they dress which is a joke. Last time I checked the Mafia wore 3-piece suits on the regular yet no one thinks every man in suit is a gangster. Not all young men that have baggy jeans, doo-rags, or hoodies is a criminal nor is every guy in a suit harmless. Abre los ojos Tanya.

“The reason why black men get harassed by cops is because of how they act, dress and live.”

Tanya that statement right there tells me you really didn’t listen to my interview with Dr. Hill when were discussing our experiences of driving while black and being harassed by cops on the New Jersey Turnpike, which most people in the tristate know as a major problem area for black drivers, hence the slew of lawsuits. If you doubt me google it, it’s all public record.

Just being in my car is excuse enough for NJ cops to get ignorant and personally I’m insulted that you would indicate that somehow because of the way I dress, act or am living is an open invitation for harassment when you know nothing about my life other than what I have shared. If my car is legit, I’m not driving recklessly, and the only indication that a black man is driving is because my window is down, how again are my actions, life, or attire inviting harassment? When Dr. Hill was still dressed in his suit and the frame around his license plate clearly states this he’s a college alum and again not driving reckless and completely legit, how is that encouraging harassment?

“And you said it yourself, your problem is you fit the description of a criminal, so change your description brother. Why are you looking like a criminal??????”

Yeah if it were only that simple. I don’t have a police scanner at home Tanya therefore I can’t dictate my daily attire based on who the cops are looking for, that is insane. My wardrobe ranges from timbs, jeans, and hoodies to f***king tuxedos so you’re making no sense. Again you seem to think you can spot a criminal just by looking at that is the problem. Are you also so gifted that you can look at someone and know their HIV status? I doubt it because no one can just like criminals do no have a wardrobe, criminals wear all kinds of clothes.

As far as you saving my kids from me, why don’t you figure out what you can do to give back to your community? I’m a doer not a talker when it comes to youth work, I’m proud of what I do and I know I’m having a positive impact on my kids regardless of what you think.

38. Swayyde wrote:

Ms. Tanya,

- agreed on your 1, 2 and 3
(… & of course Jesus was different. However, the murderous violence, ignorance and idiocy on behalf of the bigots was/is not).

+1. “Can you attempt to explain those odds???”

I don’t doubt your best intentions, but how large of a screen do you have so that those of us here can list all the people we know of (if not ourselves) who are educated, well spoken, have no criminal (or fashion faux pas) priors and have been unjustly hassled or brutalized by police?

+2. “I do not get the impression that [DC] addresses with the
children…”

Following a request, he gave an example of SOME pointers. As for what you suppose he doesn’t say to the youth he works with… Were/Are you there? Why don’t you ask him.

+3. “If I had acted like or looked like a criminal during those
stops I might have been the topic of this post.”

“Beauty [criminality] is in the eye of the beholder [bigot]“…

Above all, I would add, that I very am glad that you survived, apparently you’ve learned your own personal lesson, and through it you are blessed, alive and have been able to share and discuss all this today. Hence, it’s all part of —

+4. Addressing the different facets (good and bad), problems and solutions with individuals and with a community; and not waiting for survival extremes to manifest before taking positive and needed courses of action.

I have no doubt that lessons are always being learned.

39. Tanya wrote:

DC,

You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.

Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.

You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)

I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are wide open.)
¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)

In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”

I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.

However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!

I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.

He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.

If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.

In NY we have very ‘bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.

And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.

Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.

So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.

Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.

I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.

I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.

This article http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.

I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.

PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

40. Tanya wrote:

Here is a link to the website of the Sheriff’s department in Florida instructing cops on how to identify gang members.

http://www.polksheriff.org/library/gangs/identifying.html

DC, please note that on this site they indicate “dress” as a factor in identifying gang members. That sounds to me like they would, judge, harass, target someone based on their clothes. But in your world, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

41. Tanya wrote:

Bottom-line people, if you don’t want the black men in your life becoming the next Sean Bell. Make sure they love themselves enough to not join gangs or do criminal things or hang in criminal areas. The cops are racist yes, but doing wrong things gives them an excuse to exercise their racism.

So don’t just teach them how to deal with cops:

“(1) keep your hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel, (2) don’t unbuckle your seatbelt or turn off the car until the cop approaches the car, (3) turn on all interior lights, (4) don’t make any sudden movements, (5) turn off the radio if it’s on, (5) as you’re reaching for you license and paperwork let the cop know exactly where it is located so again there are no surprises, (6) lastly say very little and there’s a chance you may live to see another day.” – Comment by DCI74 — April 29, 2008 @ 1:27 pm

Teach them how to avoid the cops:

Live a clean life; do not get involved with drugs, guns and gangs. Most importantly teach them how to act, dress and live a criminal free life.

42. Tanya wrote:

.

43. Tanya wrote:

1. DC,
You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.
Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”
My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.
You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)
I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are wide open.)
¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)
In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”
I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.
However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!
I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.
He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.
If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.
In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.
In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.
In NY we have very ‘bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.
And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.
Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.
So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.
Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.
I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.
I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.
This article http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.
I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.
PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

44. Tanya wrote:

Here is a link to the website of the Sheriff’s department in Florida instructing cops on how to identify gang members.

http://www.polksheriff.org/library/gangs/identifying.html

DC, please note that on this site they indicate “dress” as a factor in identifying gang members. That sounds to me like they would, judge, harass, target someone based on their clothes. But in your world, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

45. Tanya wrote:

DC,

You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.

Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.

You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)

I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are wide open.)

¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)

In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”

I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.

However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!

I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.

He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.
If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.

In NY we have very ‘bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.

And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.

Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.

So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.

Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.

I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.

I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.

This article http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.

I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.

PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

46. Tanya wrote:

DC,

You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.

Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.

You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)

I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are wide open.)

¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)

In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”

I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.
However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!

I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.

He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.

If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.

In NY we have very ‘bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.

And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.

Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.

So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.

Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.

I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.

I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.

This article http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.

I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.

PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

47. Tanya wrote:

Marc,

I am having problems submitting a comment.

48. Tanya wrote:

DC,

You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.

Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.

You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)

I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are
wide open.)

¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)

In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”

I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.

However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!

I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.

He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.

If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.

In NY we have very ’bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.

And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.

Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.

So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.

Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.

I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.

I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.

This article
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html

talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.

I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.

PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

*************************************************************
Here is a link to the website of the Sheriff’s department in Florida instructing cops on how to identify gang members.

http://www.polksheriff.org/library/gangs/identifying.html

DC, please note that on this site they indicate “dress” as a factor in identifying gang members. That sounds to me like they would, judge, harass, target someone based on their clothes. But in your world, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

*************************************************************
Bottom-line people, if you don’t want the black men in your life becoming the next Sean Bell. Make sure they love themselves enough to not join gangs or do criminal things or hang in criminal areas. The cops are racist yes, but doing wrong things gives them an excuse to exercise their racism.

So don’t just teach them how to deal with cops:

“(1) keep your hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel, (2) don’t unbuckle your seatbelt or turn off the car until the cop approaches the car, (3) turn on all interior lights, (4) don’t make any sudden movements, (5) turn off the radio if it’s on, (5) as you’re reaching for you license and paperwork let the cop know exactly where it is located so again there are no surprises, (6) lastly say very little and there’s a chance you may live to see another day.” – Comment by DCI74 — April 29, 2008 @ 1:27 pm

Teach them how to avoid the cops:

Live a clean life; do not get involved with drugs, guns and gangs. Most importantly teach them how to act, dress and live a criminal free life.

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:34 pm

***************************************************************
Another Sheriff’s site directing cops to use clothing as an indicator of a threat/gang.

http://www.pcsheriff.org/How-to-Identify-Gangs.htm

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:45 pm

49. *** wrote:

DC,

You seem to be getting a little emotional here (#34). Please understand that I have no ill will or ill thoughts of you as a person. In fact, I honestly respect you. In (#33) I give you props! I believe you have good intentions. I believe you lend a hand to your community and I appreciate all of your posts. Even though most of the time your posts sadden me.

Your first 3 sentences in (#34) are very telling! “No Tanya, I get it, it’s you that seems a bit out of touch. See you are clearly so conditioned you don’t even realize it. Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

My beef DC, is not with you, it is with your, (and please don’t get offended, but I have to say it) slave mentality. Again DC, this is not a personal attack on you, it is an attack on the conditioning of black people in this country. Please just take a moment and ponder upon where you may be wrong. Because it is definitely you that is out of touch.

You said to me, “Abre los ojos.” (Open your eyes)

I say to you, Mis ojos son abiertos de par en par. (My eyes are
wide open.)

¡Sus ojos se cierran de par en par! (Your eyes are wide shut!)

In (#27) I stated, “Police can identify criminals and thugs and trouble makers based on their demeanor, actions, gestures, language and surroundings, among other things, despite of their clothes. But wearing a suit is a great start, but not a necessity.”

I clearly indicate that clothes are not the end all be all factor. And for the record, I do not believe that clothes should play any factor in determining who a person is.

However, my eyes are open wide enough to see, and know that white people, and cops in general judge all people, (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian) based on HOW THEY ARE DRESSED!

I went to an elite private HS in NY. My graduating class consisted of 435 people. 35 of us, were black. I know white people better than white people know white people. 15 of the white guys I went to HS with are Captains, Lieutenants, and Detectives for NYPD. 1 of them I am very, very good friends with and speak to often. This white boy is cool as hell. He is far from a racist, but he targets people when he is on the beat and they trained him to.

He told me exactly how it goes down. If the cops see a black man with dreads, he becomes a target and is regarded as a Rastafarian and Rastafarians are approached by cops in a certain manner based on their tendencies.

If he sees a black guy dressed in a certain way, or wearing certain colors (i.e. blue or red) they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have a Hispanic gang called Latin Kings, their color is yellow. If the cops see a Spanish guy wearing yellow and acting in a certain manner they become a target and are regarded as gang-bangers.

In NY we have another Hispanic gang called MS-13 (these dudes are gangsta). They have certain tattoos, signs, hair cuts and if the cops identify you as doing or saying something closely related to this gang, you are regarded as one of them.

In NY we have very ’bout it Korean and Chinese gangs that go hard. And again the cops have ways to identify them (certain style of dress) and if any Asian displays and indication that they MAY belong to one of these gangs, they also become a target.

And I’m sure you’re familiar with the Arian Nation, the white gang where most of the members are bold and have swastika tattoos. Well the Arians beef with cops all the time. So if you are white and have a bold head and tattoo that looks like a swastika, you are going to be targeted by the cops and regarded as a gang-banger too.

Many people may display various aspects of these gangs, but may have not relation to any gang at all. But as a survival technique, the cops consider you a threat.

So you see DC clothes are very often the main reason cops harass someone. Not the only, but often one of the main. Therefore, for you to say that, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.” Just shows how blind, conditioned and sadly wrong you are, and it breaks my heart.

Many people hate the cops, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians. And the cops know this. The cops are in a very dangerous position and they are constantly on the defensive. Everyone in their eyes is a threat, because a representative from every race has attacked and killed a cop.

I know, and you know, that not every black man that wears blue or red is a Blood or a Crip. You know, and I know, that some very soft, nerdy black dudes wear “gang-like gear” but pose no threat to anyone. But the fact of the matter is, the cops are trained to make quick judgments and group people by threat value.

I think the very nature of the white man is to fear the black man, so they are on heighten alert when it comes to any and every black men. But the way we dress can do a lot to lesson this fear, and not be grouped as a threat.

This article
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353045,00.html

talks about how kids with razor lines in their eyebrows are considered gang members. I would encourage you all to read it as it may leverage some insight to my position.

I see little innocent black boys in my neighborhood with these razor lines in their eyebrows, and I know they are good, smart kids, who are just young and trying to be cool. I know they are not in a gang. But if they go into a crime area in Queens with their lined eyebrows, the cops will certainly harass them and consider it an excuse to pull their gun. My advice to these kids, don’t shave lines in your eyebrows. Period. DC, I think you would just focus on telling them how to deal with the cops when they are confronted.

PS- DC I wouldn’t be surprised if during one of your harassment episodes with the police you were wearing a blue, perfectly harmless t-shirt and one of the white cops just saw the blue and thought – Crip!

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

*************************************************************
Here is a link to the website of the Sheriff’s department in Florida instructing cops on how to identify gang members.

http://www.polksheriff.org/library/gangs/identifying.html

DC, please note that on this site they indicate “dress” as a factor in identifying gang members. That sounds to me like they would, judge, harass, target someone based on their clothes. But in your world, “Clothing is not the reason why young black men are harassed by cops.”

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

*************************************************************
Bottom-line people, if you don’t want the black men in your life becoming the next Sean Bell. Make sure they love themselves enough to not join gangs or do criminal things or hang in criminal areas. The cops are racist yes, but doing wrong things gives them an excuse to exercise their racism.

So don’t just teach them how to deal with cops:

“(1) keep your hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel, (2) don’t unbuckle your seatbelt or turn off the car until the cop approaches the car, (3) turn on all interior lights, (4) don’t make any sudden movements, (5) turn off the radio if it’s on, (5) as you’re reaching for you license and paperwork let the cop know exactly where it is located so again there are no surprises, (6) lastly say very little and there’s a chance you may live to see another day.” – Comment by DCI74 — April 29, 2008 @ 1:27 pm

Teach them how to avoid the cops:

Live a clean life; do not get involved with drugs, guns and gangs. Most importantly teach them how to act, dress and live a criminal free life.

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:34 pm

***************************************************************
Another Sheriff’s site directing cops to use clothing as an indicator of a threat/gang.

http://www.pcsheriff.org/How-to-Identify-Gangs.htm

Comment by Tanya — April 30, 2008 @ 8:45 pm