1. DCI74 wrote:

Wow who knew Re. Jesse Lee Peterson was Soulja Boy’s father lol! That would explain what he said to Toure a while back but come on Reverend, you are enthusiastically thankful for slavery?? Amazing…

2. ~JJG~ wrote:

This is sad, and what is even sadder, is that I am sure he has a flock of black church members who share his opinion. Ignorance is beyond bliss. This country is great because WE [blacks] are here. This country wasn’t great standing alone. We have contributed greatly to this country. The African countries are in the plight that they are in today because of colonialism and imperialism. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson needs to read a book, besides the Bible.

3. zak wrote:

I can’t even be sarcastic…it’s too easy. Maybe he’s mentally challenged…you know, like a retard. For real. I think that…for real.

4. ~JJG~ wrote:

Zak, yeah he may be a bit cognitively delayed. He was slurring right?

5. wouldn't you like to know? wrote:

did this nigger really just compare a slave ship to a crowded coach flight??? i could slap the tom foolery out of his ass

SMH.

sorry you guys. i’m kinda pissed…

6. Mrs. Rivers wrote:

Marc, why did you have to pull up Tanya’s pastor and blast him out like this!

Sit tight yall, expect a 100+ posts on this one. . . .

7. DCI74 wrote:

Lol @ Sammy

8. clifton harrison wrote:

No, I’m sorry Marc, this is not embarassing, this nigga disgusts me.

9. BT wrote:

I am totally disgusted! I can’t believe anyone with any sense would say something like that. For one, racism would not have been the way it was if there was not slavery. It was after slavery that the Europeans created the hierarchy of races and put Black and Native American people on the bottom. Believe it or not, before that Black people were not viewed as inferior.

Furthermore, there are many people from all over the world living in America who are not the descendants of the victims of the Middle Passage. How did they get there? They did their own voyages and immigrated there. Thats how Asians got to America and they didn’t need to be slaves to get there.

He is also forgetting that problems were caused in Africa when the healthy and young people were taken away. Things would have been much different there if it wasn’t for slavery, racism, and colonialism. Plus, not everyone in Africa is suffering horribly and starving. There are great places there where people are doing okay and even living in the way Westerners do (not saying thats better just that there are people living similar lives to Americans). What a moron. I agree with JJG, this idiot needs to pick up a history book and never educate children!

10. Bitter Brother wrote:

All jokes aside… this guy sounds like Aaron MacGruder’s inspiration for Uncle Ruckus. I agree that we should pity him, not become angry. This shows me, once again, that the Bible within the wrong hands can be the strongest weapon of mass ignorance known to man.

11. clifton harrison wrote:

I definetly agree with your thoughts on the bible bitter brother…

12. Marc Lamont Hill wrote:

lmao aw lawwwwwwd….

13. Cézsar wrote:

LOL Mrs Rivers you spoke my mind there hahaha! Tanya was precisely the first thing that came to my mind as I listened to this anomaly.

14. JustSaying wrote:

Somebody needs to send homeboy to this webpage: http://www.juneteenth.com/middlep.htm and tell him to wake up!

15. Tanya wrote:

WOW, you guys don’t even know me, YET STILL, I remain on your minds!!! That’s wonderful. Thank you!

16. Tanya wrote:

OK, now I understand why blacks are leery of black Republicans!

But this fool is NOT representative of black Republicans. Every group has its retards, and Zak, you are right, Peterson is seriously retarded. And yes, JJG, his slurred speech is indicative of that.

FIRST:

DO NOT associate this man with Christianity or The Holy Bible. Everyone who claims Christianity is not a Christian. Everyone who calls them self Rev. does not have a divine connection to GOD. And Everyone who reads the Bible or quotes from the Bible does NOT understand the true meaning of the Bible.

This man does not speak GOD’s words!

SECOND:

Only a fool, a down right dumb, retarded, self hating FOOL, would say slavery was good for black people.

There is a difference between looking for a silver lining in a dark cloud, and being happy for or supporting that dark cloud.

In that previous discussion we had about slavery and SB’s comment, my point was for blacks to stop sulking over slavery (lemons) and make lemon-aid with those lemons. NOT to be thankful for slavery.

However, SB thanked the haters (slave-masters) just like ever other rapper thanks his haters. And therefore, I saw no harm and no foul with that!

17. Tanya wrote:

JJG,

“The African countries are in the plight that they are in today because of colonialism and imperialism.” – JJG

Ethiopia was NEVER colonized or the victim of imperialism. So how do you explain Ethiopian poverty???

Colonialism and imperialism is NOT Africa’s only problem, and contrary to popular belief, it’s NOT Africa’s biggest problem either!

18. DCI74 wrote:

Tanya, whether or not we in this thread associate this man with Christianity really doesn’t matter because by attaching that title to his name he’s done that already but I understand what you are saying. It’s important to remember that unlike Greg the barber on 125th and St. Nick, Jesse Lee Peterson is in the public atmosphere so his words carry much more weight than in an actual barbershop discussion. This man had a nationally syndicated radio show as well as a cable TV show and started an organization described as “an American group dedicated to promoting responsible fatherhood amongst African Americans” that includes a school for boys. So his influence is pretty wide and apparently people are eating from his buffet of b.s. As far as SB he wasn’t thanking his haters, the question by Toure was ‘what historical figures do you hate the most’ SB was stumped so Toure told him that others said people like Hitler, bin laden, the slave masters and it was at that moment that SB made that infamous statement. He was defending the slave masters.

19. Tanya wrote:

DC,

SB was NOT defending slave-masters! Please review that video again and I’m sure you will pick up on the context clues, and inflection in SB’s tone, that clearly indicate he was giving the slave-masters a “shout out”, in the same way many rappers give a “shout out” to their haters! Watch the video carefully and you will see that.

Regarding that damn Uncle Rukus character – Peterson, I know he seems to have a bit of a “following”, and that’s why I said I understand why blacks are leery of Republicans, black Republicans especially, b/c this FOOL calls himself a Republican and speaks his nonsense all over the country.

I just hope it can be clear to you and everyone else that Peterson does NOT speak for black Republicans, and he is NOT representative of black Republicans in any regard. So PLEASE DO NOT judge us based on this asshole!

Peterson ONLY claims to be a Republican b/c he wants to kiss the white man’s a**. He’s a dummy who feed into the false “Republicans hate blacks” facade that the Democrats created. Peterson is a good house nigger if I ever saw one.

I and other black Republicans just agree with platforms like Pro-Life, Prayer in Schools, and Opposition to gay marriage. It’s not a race thing, its a belief system thing!

20. Tanya wrote:

DC,

PS – “Jesse Lee Peterson is in the public atmosphere so his words carry much more weight than in an actual barbershop discussion.” – DC

Peterson’s words only hold weight if you and others give weight to them. I just don’t understand why people pay any attention to this fool!

21. R.oB. wrote:

I think we conflate you and this guy Tanya because you did in fact thank God for slavery in that it got us to America with the added bonus today that we African Americans are better off than our Africans brothers and sisters. We lost the nuance where the Inspiration for Uncle Ruckus probably thought slavery was good for us at the time. After all, it gave us Christianity, discipline, and 3 square meals a day. White man took good care of us! While you basically seem to accept it to be a crime against humanity. But you did defend SB rather vigorously, so you at a minimum you get Bill Ayers’ed with this guy.

22. DCI74 wrote:

Bill Ayers’ed – I like that R.oB but the white man did not give Africans Christianity.

You are so smart Tanya, how could I have gotten it wrong? Thank you…

Tanya to be honest I don’t care about his political affiliation even though you seem to think it needs to be defended when nobody else even mentioned it. Yeah he’s a Republican so what? He’s also an idiot that other idiots like to listen to but there are a range of other factors that affect his thoughts and lifestyle that may contribute to the nonsense he said in that video.

23. Tanya wrote:

Rob,

Are you kidding me?!?!?!

I NEVER SAID I OR ANYONE SHOULD THANK GOD FOR SLAVERY.

Why do you NEVER seem to correctly comprehend the point or understand what is PLAINLY being said?!?!?!?!

Further, I DO NOT credit slavery or the white man for giving us “Christianity, discipline, and 3 square meals a day”, as you seem to so proudly proclaim. I think that is beyond ignorant!

My whole point in that post was it’s about time for black people to stop crying about the ills of slavery, and look at the brighter side (when life hands you lemons, make lemon-aid), and move forward in life.

Has slavery devastated us as a people, as a whole, YES, YES, and YES! But at what point to we stop using it as an excuse not to get up off our tales and do something positive in life???

Slavery and “The Man” should no longer be an excuse.

THAT WAS THE POINT I WAS MAKING THEN AND THAT’S MY POINT NOW.

BUT, This is NOT Peterson’s point. Peterson would thank the white man for shitting in his mouth, just b/c is put “food” in his stomach.

If you fail to see the difference between what I said and what Peterson is saying, then, you’re greatly lost in life.

24. Tanya wrote:

Again, I NEVER said to thank GOD for slavery!!!

This is what I said in #53 under that post about SB:

“To All, To be clear,

I would never say that slavery was good for our people. NEVER!

Just like I would never say being without legs is a good thing.

But Jessica Long, a Paralympic Swimmer, and Gold Medalist (who was born without legs), said, when someone asked her if she wished she had legs – “If I had legs, I would never have won a Gold Medal; if I had legs I would never have meet so many great people; if I had legs I wouldn’t be the role model that I am today!”

Jessica is a Christian!

“All things work together for the good of those who love the Lord”!

She’s not sitting at home crying about not having legs, and I don’t think it benefits black people to keep crying about our disadvantages.

I think black people, in general, need to learn to appeal to the Pollyanna within them and play the Glad Game with every aspect of their lives and their history!

“Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding…. It is the bitter poison by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician and drink his remedy in tranquility and silence.” – Kahlil Gibran

That is all.

Comment by Tanya — November 12, 2008 @ 10:16 am”

How anyone, of common sense, could mistake that for me thanking GOD for slavery is beyond me. How anyone could equate my statements with that of Peterson’s, is even further beyond me.

SMH

25. Tanya wrote:

DC,

“Tanya to be honest I don’t care about his political affiliation even though you seem to think it needs to be defended when nobody else even mentioned it.” – DC

It doesn’t matter if anyone here mentioned him being a Republican or not.

Peterson publicly and proudly, and as often as he can, claims to be a Republican, and he fully encompasses the entire Uncle Rukus mentality that many people, unfortunately and inaccurately, associate with black Republicans.

Peterson, with all his ignorance, additionally claiming to be a Republican, fuels the subconscious and the inaccurate assumption that all black Republicans think like him. But they don’t.

People think black Republicans hate their “blackness”, like Peterson does. But we don’t.

Most black people have some level of disdain for black Republicans, as a whole, b/c fools like Peterson have some how become the “poster boy” for black Republicans, and they think we are all like him. But we’re not.

I just want to make it clear, to your conscious and your subconscious, that black Republicans, as a majority, are NOTHING like Peterson.

26. ~JJG~ wrote:

Tanya, referring to your #15

Granted Ethiopia was not colonized by the European, but the majority of the African continent was colonized. To isolate one non-colonized country still does not validate your argument. I never said that colonialism and imperialism was Africa’s only problem, but I do believe that Africa’s present problems are because of colonialism and imperialism. It is the cause, not the problem. How do you explain a land that is so rich in resources (oil, gold, diamonds, timber, humans, and etc.), but yet poor in regards to the global economy? Africa has been over exploited, which has been diabolical for the African people.

27. DCI74 wrote:

Lol this is funny. I guessed that there would be three consecutive posts by you Tanya before one person replied and sure enough lol. It’s like not how my brief my responses are I know I’m guaranteed a long diatribe from you. I say that so say this, I just find it interesting you feel compelled to defend a political agenda that no one is attacking and everyone understands that he doesn’t reflect the entire perspective of group, we get it. We are all intelligent enough to understand that the perspective of one doesn’t reflect that of the collective group just like there are Republicans that don’t share some viewpoints you you do, we all get that.

28. Tanya wrote:

DC,

Do you notice that, regardless of the topic, I have to constantly state, “I NEVER said that”??? People here, for some reason, are always misinterpreting my statements and assuming I said something that I didn’t say.

Therefore, I feel the need to thoroughly (as thorough as I can), explain my points to help alleviate or limit, the chance of someone misunderstanding what it is that I’m saying.

So if you consider my “diatribes” long, well, yours have been pretty long as well, a time or two, or more! But I let you live!

How about this, if you don’t want to read my long remarks, try really hard to understand what it is I’m saying the first time, so you can respond with something that address my point and not with something that misinterprets my point, and THEN, I won’t have to respond, repeating myself and further explaining my point with such a long diatribe! Sound like a plan????

Anywho…

Yes, I’m sure you and others are intelligent enough to understand that the actions of one don’t reflect an entire group. But you are all still human, and humans have the capacity to judge, and they often judge a group based on the actions of one.

On the surface you may understand that Uncle Rukus Peterson, doesn’t reflect all Republicans, but subconsciously, (maybe not you, but definitely others) use Peterson as a mark to judge all black Republicans.

You can’t deny the FACT that in the black community, black Republicans are always “second guessed”. There is a stigma attached to black Republicans. People in general, don’t like Republicans in general, and I think this sentiment is heightened among blacks and black Republicans.

Blacks often think (for some odd reason) that black Republicans want to be white, and reject their blackness or have some bit of self hate. Cézsar even suggested (in a post some time back) that I hated my blackness and that I hate black men, and that me being a Republican was indicative of that. How ridiculous is that? Cézsar is a prime example of the ill-advised blacks inaccurately judging black Republicans. And Cézsar is not alone. People far too often like to “spite fire” (as Rob would say) at black Republicans, and it’s all b/c they throw us all in the same box as Dumb-Dumb-Dummy Peterson.

So yes, I felt extremely compelled to defend black Republicans from being grouped with the likes of Jesse Lee Peterson.

Wasn’t that obvious?!?!? Did I really have to break it that far down?!?!? Didn’t I make this point clear in #17??? Why are you still finding it “interesting” in #25 that I felt compelled to defend my group???

29. Tanya wrote:

I made that one nice and extra long just for you DC!!! Muah!

30. Tanya wrote:

JJG,

“Granted Ethiopia was not colonized by the European, but the majority of the African continent was colonized.” – JJG

So was every other country in the entire world!!! Yes the majority of the African continent was colonized, but so was America, Germany, France, Poland, Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain, Greece, Italy. Every country in the world (except Ethiopia) was colonized at some point. If colonization is so bad, then why aren’t any of these other countries suffering the poverty that many African countries are suffering today?

I think pointing out that Ethiopia wasn’t colonized, yet still suffers the same fate as many of the other countries in Africa that were colonized, is extremely valid in being able to critically and accurately determine the underlining problems with Africa.

If you believe that colonialism and imperialism is the cause of African problems, you are perfectly entitled to you opinion.

But I don’t think Political Science or Anthropology is on your side with this one.

In the interest of brevity, I will simply state that ***Governance*** is African’s most poignant problem. I believe it is the corruption and incompetence within African governments, and the lack of real bureaucratic oversight that has exploited and denigrated the natural jewel that Africa was/is/will soon be again.

It’s the Governance stupid!

(I’m an NOT calling you stupid. This is just a play on “It’s the Economy stupid”.)

31. Cézsar wrote:

Let the evidence speak for itself…

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“Thank God for slavery because, you know, had not, then the Blacks over here would have been stuck in Africa. You see how bad Africa is. Everybody and their mama trying to get out of Africa to come to America, and so God has a way of looking out for folks who made it possible by way of slavery, uh, uh, to get Black folks to this country.

…the white man for going there and getting us and bringing us here, I wanna say thanks.”

Tanya:

“If the slave masters didn’t bring black people here, they would most likely, still be in Africa, suffering and living in deprived conditions.

Think how much better off blacks here in America are in comparison to the majority of blacks in Africa!

Thanking your enemies is a Christian practice!”

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“…100% American. Proud of it, I thank God that he saw fit for me to get here. Nevermind that we were sold, I mean by, I guess by ancestors way back way yonder when, were sold by Arabs and Blacks to the white folks who got us here. The white man came and brought us to the greatest country in the world.”

Tanya:

“The opportunities in America are ONLY so b/c of our democracy! That’s why America is the greatest country in the world! No other country has the democracy that we have!

If the slave masters didn’t bring us here (despite the all the pain it caused – trials and tribulations) most of us would be in African right now STILL suffering under that government structure, and NOT experiencing all the freedoms and privileges (blessings) we have here!”

^Now if that’s not singing from the same hymn sheet, I don’t know what is. Oh how the truth never lies. Embarassing Negro moment indeed! No amount of “nuancing” can put humpty dumpty back together again on this one. Tut tut tut. So sad. So so sad.

32. Cézsar wrote:

With regard to colonisation and its after effects, think of a nuclear bomb. The fall out after a nuclear detonation can last several decades after the fact. Now think of a cluster of successive nuclear bombs detonated incessantly over a 500 year period; detonated NOT on Africa but on Blackness. Raw, potent and visceral self hatred were diligently and purposefully packed into these bombs by those who made them, and for 500 years they ensured the relentless gutting and absolute destruction of any and all sources of self confidence rooted in Blackness. The duration and consequences of the fall out are simply incalculable but they are certainly still being felt today. You don’t need to look beyond this post for evidence of that i.e. Jesse Lee Peterson and his ilk.

I have seen beautiful Black girls in Africa bleaching their skin because they are unable to perceive their own natural beauty. And deference being shown to lighter shades of Blackness. Yes, the fall out is still present and on-going. Black people would serve their people far better by addressing this than by being conduits for white moral rectitude and powerful advocates of white supremacy, especially those who claim “the greatest nationality in the world”.

Europeans who claim Jewishness without evidence are still acknowledged as being of Jewish descent whereas Africans (like the Lemba tribe of South Africa whose DNA reveal irrefutable evidence of belonging to the Jewish High Priest class) are not. The war is indeed on Blackness. And with all the support from the greatest nations on earth, why is it that the Jews play the Holocaust card at every given opportunity? Especially to justify more killing in the Middle East? Blacks have never been offered any where near the same level of support and yet we are not allowed to even mention slavery and its after effects? Haha.

You see, it’s a “both and” not “either or” proposition. Personal responsibility on the part of Africans culminating in great and effective leadership, and moral obligation on the part of the “bomb makers” culminating in the type of carthatic healing exercise that was the creation, sustenance, education and vigorous defense of Israel. It is nothing new. It has all been done before. Both parties just have to be sincere about it.

All this talk of “turn the other cheek and thank your enemies” is just nonsense and the talk of fully breached and broken slaves. Obama is a direct descendant of an African, as am I…so there clearly is evidence of some Africans internalising the personal responsibility philosophy. But that is only one half of the coin. If white Americans had not engaged in another carthatic healing exercise by turning out in droves to vote for a Black man, he would have won nothing. It is also noteworthy that Obama did not shy away from his Blackness. Both parties must take their responsibilities seriously (and called out when they don’t) and use the right healing, love language to bring it all together. The only problem is that people on both sides are not sincere. Isn’t Utopia what we all want? C’mon now.

Merry Christmas everyone.

33. Miss Martin wrote:

lovin’ # 29 and #30 lol lol

34. DCI74 wrote:

Much like a 747 in the sky my point goes over your head but thanks Tanya for yet another long boring ass post I don’t feel like reading lol.

Have a wonderful holiday, see you all in 09, maybe.

35. ~JJG~ wrote:

Tanya,

I hollered for about 3 straight minutes when I read, “But I don’t think Political Science or Anthropology is on your side with this one,” because I have a Bachelor of Political Science degree and Master of Public Administration degree. I have never been told that. You are too funny! Hilarious even! Girl, I have been searching for your rationale, but night has come and gone, so I bow to your lack of rationale on this one Tanya. I wish you a Merry Christmas my dear. I’m out to do some last minute shopping. Good Day!

36. james wrote:

cezsar, your argument about colonisation, while interesting, is mostly askew.

i did not vote for obama as a part of any healing process, and i don’t know of anybody who did. i don’t need to be a part of any healing process, except for those in my own personal life. i am not, i repeat, not responsible for, nor feeling any guilt whatsoever about the enslavement of africans or the destruction of the indigineous people in america.

i voted for obama because he was the best candidate, and because we share a good deal of the same ideas about the future of america and the world.

secondly, men, women, and children, all over the world are obsessed with changing their appearances because of poor body images. it’s not just an african thing, and colonisation has nothing to do with it.

thirdly, i’m not quite sure how your jewish anecdote supports your claim about the “war on blackness.”

37. Mrs. Rivers wrote:

getting closer and closer to 100 I see . . . .
Tanya sometimes you have to shut up and stop insisting on proving your point in order to learn something new. With the New Year around the corner, you might want to put that on your resolutions list.

and trust me – I don’t think anyone on this blog gives a damn if the man is republican or not. Your claims of Ethiopia are halfway wrong but it would take three books and a lecture for you to get it.

So with that fellow bloggers, I’m boarding a plane to Philly. Have a Merry Christmas and if you’re in the area, hit me up. Peace.

38. Cézsar wrote:

My dear James, didn’t you hear? The word is out, the world has its first openly Black president; its ok for whites too to be openly penitent now, now that the edge has been taken off by a Black man running the Western show lol

I kid I kid, I joke I joke, so don’t go flying off the handle now you hear lol. But being facetious aside, there is a bigger picture here of which we are all a part, whether you are aware of it or not. Our antecedents, whether you like it or not, ensured that we would all forever be bound to the under-pinning larger historical story here; sub-text it may be, but since the past is all we have for future reference, the intellectually honest among us know that not only does it serve as a cradle for the creation of our present context and on-going realities, but the historical story itself is still writing itself as we speak, ad infinitum.

Therefore, sir, when whites helped elect Obama, healing occurred. Conscious acknowledgement of this is actually not required, but that doesn’t mean it did not and is not happening. It just so happens to be the case with me that if history was a mountain, then the vantage point of my purview would be the top of it, and that’s why I see what I see. So whether you conciously feel guilt or not is irrelevant, the story is telling itself. But since we are all coming out, it would be cool to see more openly penitent whites though, nah I’m kidding lol…unless you’re gonna do it. Lol.

And ask for your puzzlement over the war on Blackness, all I can say is, you will see it when you are ready to see it.

39. james wrote:

cezsar, perhaps, for you, on personal level, some bit of healing occured, but i don’t think you can claim any bit of healing for an entire race of people. healing is very difficult to gage. perhaps you are mistaking healing for pride…?

yes, electing the first african-american in united states history has a certain historical cache based upon the united state’s brutal treatment of african americans; but history is not a mountain, history is only what happened, and politics is the story behind what happened. there is no “healing” in the force the historical events.

with obama’s election, in the purely historical sense, there was a large amount of jubilation, and while a small bit of that jubilation was eminating from obama’s blackness, most of it was directed at the potential of moving on after 8 years of an absolutely terrible administration, and what will more than likely be described a hundred years from now as a fairly dismal period in american history.

obama represents change much more than blackness. if his administration is successful, being the first african-american president will be more than a footnote in history, but his communication skills and political ideas will always overwhelm that distinction.

i’m still curious about the war on blackness. perhaps you can provide me with some more examples of it?

40. Cézsar wrote:

Deliberately missing the point does not diminish it in any way James. Its ok, you can be openly penitent now lol. I play too much

In saying this – “obama represents change much more than blackness. if his administration is successful, being the first african-american president will be more than a footnote in history, but his communication skills and political ideas will always overwhelm that distinction.” – you made an alright attempt at articulating the present, working, and progressive context…but the sub-text still remains the same.

Happy holidays!

41. Miriam wrote:

what pains me most: some people don’t have the money to travel…we learn so much money when we move our feet and stop assuming knowledge. We need to just listen and be persistently open to the transformation of our lives through the lives of those seemingly unlike ourselves.

Once we open ourselves to vulnerability and we are willing to share our wholeness, our broken-ness, and our uncertainty as well as our experiences with others, we become real, most importantly, to ourselves and we learn so much.

This gentleman doesn’t know what has happened to many African countries because he probably hasn’t been to any, like many Americans (that is not a bad thing). What is unfortunate, is that in the absence of knowledge–the experiences that shape our thoughts– this man has created his own truth, a horrific truth that some blacks (of whatever heritage, including individuals from African countries)are happy that the white man took them away from their distant lands. Personally, I have heard this said too many times (sometimes while eavesdropping…lol)and said in different ways.

It is actually numbing to hear it said over and over again. I will do my part to learn more about my history (I am of Ghanaian heritage) and share it with others. One thing, I do wish, is that people increase their knowledge of “Africa,” first by breaking through language…start by naming one country in Africa and speak to what you are concerned about in that country…that requires movement, of course.

It takes experience and a while for our language and our speech to gain complexity, so that we are careful how we say things, and what thoughts we allow to govern our lives.

The rest is lost to me…but the devil is and will always be a liar.

42. Miriam wrote:

I don’t want to lose sight of the fact that the diverse groups of people who sold each other (including Africans, Arabs, Europeans, etc) throughout history and still are, did and do so because of their own greed and desire for wealth. However, the manipulative ideologies that governed those transactions were very powerfully destructive and the insecurities and distorted views of who we are as a people and “where we belong” has come to stay with us.

What could be silently hovering in this man’s speech is pain and vengeance (I am reminded of Toni Morrison’s Paradise): The truth and complexity of “who sold who” and “who is responsible” or complicit, will come to those who search for the truth when their motive and their end is humanity and love.

43. ShadowSurfer wrote:

Damn Ignorant!!

44. Tanya wrote:

Cézsar, (and I know your little lonely self is jumping for joy that I’m responding directly to you)

YOU HAVE TO BE THE DUMBEST PERSON IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!!

If you’re not dumb, then you are an evil fool working tirelessly to confuse others.

As WYLTK has already accurately identified, you are a master manipulator!

I know you’re still bitter about all the previous posts where I exposed your stupidity, so you have to keep trying to twist my words to prove something to yourself, to feel vindicated in some way. But you only keep setting yourself up for failure. STOP IT! You’re a loser!

Although Rob didn’t COMPLETELY grasp my point, he is still light years ahead of you. LIGHT YEARS AHEAD!!!

As Rob has already accurately identified in #19:

“…you [Tanya] did in fact thank God for slavery in that it got us to America with the added bonus ***today*** that we African Americans are better off than our Africans brothers and sisters…While you basically seem to accept it to be a crime against humanity.”

Although I NEVER thanked GOD for slavery. Rob does understand that I view slavery as a CRIME, yet I acknowledge the ***sliver lining*** of blacks in America ***TODAY*** being better off than blacks in Africa ***TODAY***! Rob also understands THE DEFINING DIFFERENCE that Peterson views slavery as being good ****THEN*** (Christianity/3 meals), and also has “benefits” NOW.

Rob also said, “at a minimum you get Bill Ayers’ed with this guy”. Do you know who Bill Ayers is???? He’s the “bad” guy some were TRYING to closely tie Obama to, BUT there was NO close tie between Obama and Ayers. Rob is identifying that some (you and silly Samara) may tie me to Peterson, although there IS NO TIE!!!

I would encourage everyone to read my comments on that previous post, as you will see that the words “TODAY” and “NOW” are highlighted throughout my comments. You will also see that I am employing black people to play “The Glad Game”, and look at the silver lining in the dark cloud = slavery. I AM NOT IN ANY WAY THANKING GOD FOR SLAVERY OR THANKING THE SLAVE-MASTERS!

As you quoted from me, I said, “Thanking your ***ENEMIES*** is a Christian practice!”

And there lies the difference between Peterson and I.

I identify the slave-masters as ENEMIES!!!!!!! Peterson does NOT!!!

Peterson said the boat ride was “like flying on a crowded plane, but your happy when you get to your destination”!!! (I wanted to smack him for that!)

That boat ride was NOTHING like flying a crowed plane. That boat ride was equivalent to an eternity in hell. The slaves were NOT, and should NOT, have been happy when they reached America BACK THEN. They were beaten, tortured, and terrorized BACK THEN. NOT feed and cared for as Peterson alludes to. (Christianity/3 meals)

Therefore, clearly I understand slavery was a BLACK CLOUD!!! The blackest of clouds.

Peterson does NOT view slavery as a black cloud. Peterson feels the slaves should have been happy to get Christianity, 3 meals a day, and a new country!

Peterson sees NO WRONG with slavery and sees a BENEFIT from slavery now.

I see a greatly tragic, malicious WRONG with slavery. HOWEVER, I assert that blacks (all people in any bad situation) should look at the sliver lining in that black cloud (wrong).

And, the FACT that blacks in America ***NOW*** live better than the deprived conditions that blacks in Africa live in ***NOW***, is that ***SILVER LINING***!

I DO NOT SEE ANY ***”BENEFIT”*** from slavery, but I do choose to look at the ***sliver lining*** that comes with every cloud.

You do understand the difference between a benefit and a silver lining, don’t you!?!?!?! (You probably don’t!)

The Glad Game (since I’m sure you have no clue) is when you look for something good, no matter how small it may be, in something bad.

I suggested that black people play The Glad Game with slavery, which would tell anyone with sense that I understand and believe slavery is SOMETHING BAD. (Since The Glad Game is about overcoming BAD!!!)

Peterson DOES NOT!!!!

I view slavery as wrong, and bad, and as a travesty THEN; and I see NO benefit now (some blacks are still suffering the effects). But I DO acknowledge the ***silver lining*** (better living conditions than Africa) NOW.

Peterson thinks slavery was beneficial THEN, and is even MORE beneficial now.

That’s the difference, you FOOL!!!

If you seriously think I’m “singing from the same hymn sheet” as Jesse Lee Peterson than you’re a fucking idiot! PERIOD. End of discussion!

Quoting me in part and out of context NEVER works! Didn’t I shut you down for doing that dumb shit before!?!?!?! (A fool NEVER learns!)

45. Tanya wrote:

Miss Martin,

Aren’t you a teacher????

I hope you were laughing AT Cézsar, and not with him b/c you thought he had a point!

(That’s why so many of our children are uneducated today, b/c they are being taught by “teachers” who lack distinctive analytical skills.)

46. Tanya wrote:

DC,

I love you, you HAVE to know that I love you, but I don’t think YOU know what your point is!

It might help if you stopped working so hard to try and come up with funny one-liners, and put that energy into trying to COMPLETELY understand the issue at hand.

Further, how do you know I “missed your point”; if my post was so “long” and “boring”, that you “don’t feel like reading” it?!?!?!

Nonetheless, I totally understand how you feel. There have been times when I didn’t feel like reading some of the long, boring and ignorant posts by others on here too. But you know what? I pushed myself to read them anyway, b/c you never know, you MIGHT just learn something.

In short, you asserted that my defense of black Republicans was irrelevant b/c no one HERE (in the ‘Shop) mentioned or cares that Peterson is a Republican. I proffered to you, that regardless of anyones mention of, or care for, Peterson’s political party, HE STILL represents, for many (ignorant) people, the perceived mentality of black Republicans. Dummies far and wide think ALL black Republicans are just like Peterson. Therefore, as a preemptive measure, I wanted to make it clear that practically NONE of the black Republicans (myself included) agree with this fool – Peterson.

How you could fail to see that my response was a direct and relevant address to your point, is beyond me!

Maybe that 747 flew far and clear above your head! Look up, you just might see it!

47. Tanya wrote:

JJG,

If you failed to see my rationale, then maybe it’s b/c you just don’t want to!

I’m not going to run down my long list of academic accolades, but I will tell you that, you and I share a course study. Only I took it past the MPA!

If you have a BA in Poli Sci, yet still don’t understand that colonization CAN NOT be blamed in pertinent part for African ills, then you INDEED need to do some “hollering”!!! Holler at your professors for their incompetence, or holler at yourself for not paying attention in class or for you not being able to connect the dots!

This is simple:

Ethiopia was NEVER colonized, YET STILL, suffers the same devastating fate as the African countries that were colonized, suffer.

Every country in this ENTIRE WORLD WAS COLONIZED. YET, NONE of them suffer the modern day ills that Africa does!

America, Italy, Greece etc, ALL colonized, and still manage to be in a stabilized thriving state.

Ethiopia NEVER colonized, BUT DID experience that same type of ***corrupt governance*** that other African colonized countries did.

THEREFORE, since ALL the other colonized countries in the world ARE NOT suffering the fate that Africa, as a whole, is, AND since corrupt governance is practically the only, and definitely one of the most imperative, commonalities that NONE-COLONIZED Ethiopia shares with the colonized African countries, a wise one can only deductively infer that Colonization is NOT the direct or sustaining cause of African poverty.

Obviously colonization is NOT the pressing problem.

When I said I don’t THINK Political Science was on your side, I was trying to lessen the blow. What I really meant was, HELL NO, NO WAY, does Political Science support you.

48. Tanya wrote:

Mrs. Rivers,

Maybe since you’re so busy counting the number of comments on this post you didn’t get the chance to read the comments on this post!

I am not “insisting” on proving my point, it is YOU and others that are are “insisting” on trying to prove me wrong (in any lackluster way you can).

I am not on here just adding comments; I AM ***RESPONDING*** TO QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS POSED TO ME!!!

Do you not recognize that my comments are addressed to someone, the someone who asked me a question or made a statement referencing me.

If I was here just posting comments over and over WITHOUT people asking me questions or challenging me, THEN, I would be “insisting on proving my point”.

But CLEARLY, that’s not the situation. Clearly people are asking me questions and addressing my statements, AND SO, I RESPOND.

The person who is RESPONDING is NOT the persons who is insisting. The person or persons who are ASKING the questions, is the one who is insisting.

(Maybe they don’t teach that kind of logic in Art classes.)

I would be perfectly fine with just making my statements and moving on. But there is ALWAYS someone, who wants to “push” me to continue commenting.

But I believe the dialogue is good. And if someone wants to question me, or challenge me, I welcome it. Lessons can only be learned if people fully (insistently) express (prove) their point.

Further, I don’t think you know your head from your tale when it comes to the issues of Africa, and your ill-advised comments regarding Rwanda and Darfur on that other post, prove that.

How are my comments about Ethiopia “halfway wrong”???????

Ethiopia was NEVER colonized. – FACT
Ethiopia is experiencing modern day poverty. – FACT

That is ALL the way right!!!

But I guess you have to say something/anything to “INSIST” that I’m wrong!

Whatever floats your boat…

49. Tanya wrote:

OH, and I DO hope you all had a very Blessed Christmas!

Peace and Good-will towards man!!!

50. Mena wrote:

Tanya is snatching wigs today…

“(Maybe they don’t teach that kind of logic in Art classes.)”

51. Cézsar wrote:

Though I feel pity for followers of “Rev” Jesse Lee Peterson and “Rev” James David Manning (from Atlah ministries and previous holder of “Embarassing Negro Moment”), I would not advise direct engaging (unless you’re qualified to do so) as this could exacerbate their condition and lead to severe, virulent and unrestrained irrascibility; because much like the “Pastors” themselves, what these people really need is serious & professional psychological intervention and reformation.

Best thing to do by way of pity is to hold up a proverbial mirror i.e highlight the necessary evidence that can then be used both by themselves and by professionals to address their condition. Like so:

Let the evidence speak for itself…

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“Thank God for slavery because, you know, had not, then the Blacks over here would have been stuck in Africa. You see how bad Africa is. Everybody and their mama trying to get out of Africa to come to America, and so God has a way of looking out for folks who made it possible by way of slavery, uh, uh, to get Black folks to this country.

…the white man for going there and getting us and bringing us here, I wanna say thanks.”

Tanya:

“If the slave masters didn’t bring black people here, they would most likely, still be in Africa, suffering and living in deprived conditions.

Think how much better off blacks here in America are in comparison to the majority of blacks in Africa!

Thanking your enemies is a Christian practice!”

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“…100% American. Proud of it, I thank God that he saw fit for me to get here. Nevermind that we were sold, I mean by, I guess by ancestors way back way yonder when, were sold by Arabs and Blacks to the white folks who got us here. The white man came and brought us to the greatest country in the world.”

Tanya:

“The opportunities in America are ONLY so b/c of our democracy! That’s why America is the greatest country in the world! No other country has the democracy that we have!

If the slave masters didn’t bring us here (despite the all the pain it caused – trials and tribulations) most of us would be in African right now STILL suffering under that government structure, and NOT experiencing all the freedoms and privileges (blessings) we have here!”

^Now if that’s not singing from the same hymn sheet, I don’t know what is. Oh how the truth never lies. Embarassing Negro moment indeed! No amount of “nuancing” can put humpty dumpty back together again on this one. Tut tut tut. So sad. So so sad.

Right. That’s my good deed for the day.

52. DCI74 wrote:

“How you could fail to see that my response was a direct and relevant address to your point, is beyond me!”

Because I treat your responses like a wack Chinese buffet, pick out a couple of intriguing nuggets and ignore the rest. For all of your responses I still have no idea how his video has anything to with being a Republican despite your adamant defense of your political party. That was and is my only point Tanya, that’s all.

53. Mrs. Rivers wrote:

True indeed Ehtiopia has never been officially colonized. But your argument is so loosely based it is bogus you insist on using this as apart of this argument. You cannot use a comparison of the end result without looking at the events that led up to that. If you know the history of Ethiopia then you would know that Ehtiopians spent many a year in battle defending their country from the Italians. And at one point, was indeed colonized by Italy until the battle of Adawa. Do you not think that the effects of ‘resisting colonization’ caused great harm to that country? What about their 30+ year war/feud with Eritia? What about the percution and discrimination of Ethiopian Jews that has placed them in exile for several decades?

There’s a way to have a conversation — good dialogue — but as we all have told in several posts, conversation does not exist with you. Go on and ‘respond’ to insist your point but just know this — a wise man knows that he doesnt know anything at all. Your Ms. Know-it-All attitude only makes you look as smart as a 5th grader — gameshow ready but definitely not scholar worthy.

54. Miss Martin wrote:

Tanya–paaaaaaaaaalease, I’ll take ya comment as a compliment (It’s the holiday season)
By the way, I’m a phenomenal teacher my sister, trust.
Keep doing what you and I’ll do the same…

lol

55. DCI74 wrote:

Tanya, I hope I can get this posted before you write another response, seriously I want you to think about something. While technology like the internet has made communicating with others a great thing it has also made it very ease for people to take liberties in cyberspace they would not likely take in reality. This is called the Barbershop, a virtual representation of a barbershop in an urban neighborhood, the place that for many generations was the main spot where in addition to getting a shave or a cut you can converse and talk about the days events, politics, what’s happen in the neighborhood and so on. But even in that real setting there was a sense of decorum, sure people got mad, some laughed and some got laughed at but at the end of the day you still wanted to come back even when you didn’t need a cut because the environment was cool. I think you see where I’m going with this…I’m going to guess that you type the way you talk so when you put words in capital letters and use an insane amount of characters that is when you’re really trying to make a point but please correct me if I’m wrong. But if that is the case do you honestly expect me to believe that if this were a real barbershop that you would screaming at Cezsar the way you seem to be? All I’m saying is you toss silly little insults left and right and you write (speak) in a way that I seriously doubt you would do if we were all in the same room.

Before you talk about me having sensitive skin, fall back. I work with teenagers and get insulted by them all the time but there is a difference expecting it from a smart-mouthed 14-year-old as opposed to you. You want to seem so knowledgeable about all things but you dialog like the kids I work with save for most of the multisyllabic words. If this were a real barbershop the tone of the dialog would be completely different because you would not be able to get away with half of your responses. As Sammy just pointed out you seem more like a 5th grader the way you converse so I guess I gave you too much credit because the kids I work with are in high school lol. I think I get it now, you are the barbershop comic relief, we’re not supposed to take what you say serious! Yess I figured it! lol

56. wouldn't you like to know? wrote:

Dammmmnnnnnnnnn what did i walk into??? Sheeeeesh.

who knew that one ignant nigga, could create so much dialogue???
things that make you go hmmmmmmmm…

all i gotta say in reference to this is…talk yo ishhh Mrs. Rivers, talk your ish…

and for the record, Ethiopia is blessed, and WILL rise again…

i’m out…it’s too messy in here.

57. Cézsar wrote:

Well said DC. You are a decent guy. Our points of view don’t always coincide but not once have we ever had a verbal punch up in here. I guess that’s just how grown folks do it.

When one is able to alienate themselves from the members of an entire forum, one has to accept at some point that they must be doing something wrong. Failure to accept this obvious truth renders all attempts to conceal it – vis-a-vis spin, nuance, semantics and intellectually dishonest sophistry – futile, laughable, sad, and only serves to highlight how much of a clown such a person is. Talk about using a shovel to dig oneself out of a hole lol!

The phrase “we don’t believe you, you need more people” comes to mind. LMAO!

58. THE OBENSON REPORT ON BLACK CINEMA wrote:

Tanya states:

“I view slavery as wrong, and bad, and as a travesty THEN; and I see NO benefit now (some blacks are still suffering the effects). But I DO acknowledge the ***silver lining*** (better living conditions than Africa) NOW.”

I didn’t read every single comment, so maybe I missed something here. Has any consideration been given to the fact that, if it weren’t for slavery and the colonization of the continent, Africa could indeed be in a much better state than it is currently?

So, this notion of a “silver lining” – i.e. better living conditions in America than in Africa today – is useless to this conversation, because, again, to accept that premise, one has to believe that Africa and Africans would not have advanced without European intervention, and would have still been in the socio-political and economical quagmire that many African countries are in today.

And if you do believe that, then you would also have to believe Dr James Watson’s claim that Africans are indeed innately inferior people to their European counterparts.

59. ~JJG~ wrote:

Tanya,

Are the insults in which you spew in your ministry outreach manual?

I love intellectual discourse and to hear other scholarly perspectives. I never proclaimed to be an expert, but I know what I know and I know my ish. I “love to-love to” learn, but you ain’t teaching me NUT’THANG may’ne. Your logic on Africa’s colonization and imperialism is defective.

I am nearly convinced that you are a fictional character in the Barbershop.

60. Miriam wrote:

Tanya,

I’m sorry this seems like a gang up, but if you profess to be a Christian, why are you so hurtful with your words? I realize no one is perfect, but why do you get so combative? You don’t have to defend yourself to everyone all the time(with insults to make them feel inferior to you)…just be content with your thoughts.

We all want to learn from each other, but we have to open ourselves to being hurt, being wrong, or just plain having a different perspective…I know you want this to be a community too and that you appreciate this space:) I like listening to your comments, but to be quite honest, the insults are too much. You don’t have to shoulder that burden of always explaining yourself if you feel like it will cause you to diminish other people’s thoughts. We are all here.

61. Grey wrote:

52 and 56 are on point
I am a frequent reader but rarely comment. However I love the debates that go on here in the shop…
As a Christian, Tanya you are not representing us well, lol. I know we’re all human, nobody is perfect, we all disagree, but don’t you think addressing people with a certain amount of respect is necessary? Sheesh…

Peace + Blessings + Happy Holidays yall

62. Tanya wrote:

Ok, let me continue by first saying this:

DC, JJG, Mrs. Rivers, and Miss. Martin, I AM SINCERELY SORRY for my rude remarks. I truly am. Please forgive me, please.

JJG, No, insulting others is NOT in my “ministry outreach manual”! Thank you for calling me out on that. I needed to be reminded. It’s the Christmas season too! I should have never been so rude. (But is was extremely early in the morning when I left my comments and I was frustrated and offended by the previous comments many left, so I became a little cranky this morning.)

Here’s what I think the situation is:

Many of you, if not all, probably believe that my comments are accompanied by an air of cockiness. Maybe you guys think I’m a bit arrogant, and so, you’re itching for something, anything, to bring me “back down to earth”, so to speak.

But this is completely understandable! It is only a natural and common human reaction to want to “knock down” someone who appears to be getting “too big for their britches”. So honestly, I can’t fault you.

But this causes you to read my comments looking for something to prove me wrong on, instead of reading my comments to understand my logic. Even when I provide straight facts, you guys try to find some way to diminish and/or discredit it, JUST b/c ***I*** am the one who presented the fact. This is an emotional response, not a rationale one. I don’t win or lose if YOU chose to ignore a fact; you lose, you lose the chance to increase your knowledge base.

Regardless of how you feel about me, ignoring FACTS (just b/c they are being stated by me) will only harm you. Whether it’s in the ‘Shop or in your personal and professional lives, learn to subside your emotion and disdain so you can objectively extract the facts and the truth to better yourself, increase your knowledge and move ahead. Regardless of how you feel about the source, use the source for all the knowledge it can provide you.

I want you all to know this; Although I am very confident in myself and what I do know, I am not a cocky or arrogant person. (I’m really not!) And I am truly humbled by all of the many things I know I DO NOT know. But I do see how some of my comments may come off cocky, mean, and/or arrogant, and how that would cause anyone to want to reject them. So I’m going to work on changing the tone of my comments, and I am going to work really hard to be completely respectful and patient with all of you. I hope you can do the same for me.

I also hope that you guys can recognize that often (particularly on this post) you are the ones that are “hitting” first. But when I “hit” back, my “hits” might be a little harder, and so, you guys cry foul like your hands are clean. (So maybe we all have a little something to work on.)

Nonetheless, I am disappointed in myself for “hitting” back. I’m suppose to turn the other check. So again, I deeply apologize for my rudeness (hits).

I think all of you are great people with a lot to offer, and I hope we can begin the New Year fresh! I want the ‘Shop to continue to be a peaceful, happy, fruitful place where we can all come to exercise our minds.

I’m moving forward in peace!

63. Tanya wrote:

I just really want this to be clear:

There is a HUGE difference between Peterson denying the atrocity of slavery and saying, “Slavery was good, we should be thankful to the slave-masters, and thankful that we ‘have’ America”;

And me encouraging blacks to look at the sliver-lining in the dark cloud that is slavery.

Peterson is sincerely and gratefully GIVING THANKS to the slave-masters. Peterson doesn’t view the slave-masters as enemies, he views them as “not so bad” (about as bad as a crowded plane).

I ONLY know the slave-masters as ENEMIES, and I am NOT giving thanks to them in any way. (The spiritual meaning behind thanking your enemies does NOT mean giving them praise {as Peterson does}, it means you don’t harbor resentment towards them, and you have faith that GOD will “pay you ten fold for all the transgressions you endured”, as He promised. GOD promised that the more enemies you have the more gifts you will receive in the Kingdom. So “thanking” your enemies is not about giving thanks to *them*, but being thankful for ***GOD’s promise***. There is a huge difference.)

In addition, I’m saying lets not cry about slavery, lets try to find something in it that can help propel us forward. I’m saying lets use slavery and the slave-masters as a stepping stone.

“Your enemies will become your stepping stone.”

“As for you (slave-masters), you meant evil against me; but
GOD used it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are TODAY.” – Genesis 50:20

I know that regardless of the intentionally malicious spin that Cézsar put on my position, anyone who took the time to actually read and understand my comments on that previous post, knows that there is a huge and far difference between what I said and what Peterson is saying.

I’m confident that those who see truth, see the difference.

64. Tanya wrote:

*Edit – stepping stone/stepping stool, you know the saying!

65. Tanya wrote:

DC,

“For all of your responses I still have no idea how his video has anything to with being a Republican despite your adamant defense of your political party.” – DC

B/c the man in this video is a Republican, and many people believe that the comments he made in this video is what all black Republicans believe. So I just wanted to note that, this man does NOT represent all black Republicans. I don’t want people to later or currently, associate this man with us. (please re-read the 5th paragraph in #43)

And if we were all in the same room, I would be extremely respectful to all of you, but I will still be direct, but I sincerely doubt you or others would be offended by it. I think that the intention behind written comments have a great potential of being misread and misinterpreted, especially if you don’t know the person personally. I’m sure if I was speaking with you and others in person, you would hear the tone of good will in my voice, and you wouldn’t feel insulted by anything I say, b/c you would know I only mean well.

However, regarding Cézsar, if we were in person, I would of long smacked he living day lights out of him. If we were in person, my words to Cézsar would have been far, far, far worst then what I wrote on here.

You can’t be nice to evil, and you’re not suppose to try.

66. Tanya wrote:

Mrs. Rivers,

“You cannot use a comparison of the end result without looking at the events that led up to that.” – Mrs. Rivers

I don’t understand what you are saying here. Can you please re-phrase it?

“Do you not think that the effects of ‘resisting colonization’ caused great harm to that country?” – Mrs. Rivers

If by “resisting colonization” you mean WAR, Yes. Yes war brings harm to the countries fighting. But EVERY country in the world has fought in a war, many wars, and they don’t end up in the poverty that Ethiopia is in. In fact, any Economist or Historian would tell you that war is a money maker. (I think Matt posted a piece in the ‘Shop about war being a money maker.) So I don’t understand your point.

“What about their 30+ year war/feud with Eritia?” – Mrs. Rivers

Again, countries often fight multi-decade wars, and don’t end up in the poverty that Ethiopia has. If you are attempting to draw war as the cause of Ethiopian problems, I can grant a slight bit of credence to that, but our discussion was about whether COLONIZATION caused Ethiopian/African problems, not war.

“What about the percution and discrimination of Ethiopian Jews that has placed them in exile for several decades?” – Mrs. Rivers

I don’t understand the correlation your trying to make here. What does this have to do with colonization and/or Ethiopian poverty? The exile of a sect of people from a country is morally and ethically wrong, but is does not put the country into poverty. Germany persecuted and discriminated against Jews and Germany isn’t in poverty. So I just don’t see what you’re getting at.

What we are trying to figure out here, is WHY Ethiopia is in poverty. We are also trying to figure out WHY other African countries are in poverty. If you believe it is colonization, you’re entitled to your beliefs, but you haven’t provided anything here that directly links colonization to African poverty.

From my studies, I just don’t think it’s logical to blame colonization, in whole or in part. But if you do have something that you believe proves colonization is directly to blame, then I would love for you to share it!

We can go back and forth about our opinions on WHY Africa has the problems it does, but we can not argue fact. It is a fact that Ethiopia was NEVER colonized, not even by the Italians. Ethiopia was never technically, literally, or legally colonized. – NOT my opinion, FACT that existed before I was born. lol

Please understand that Italy INVADED Ethiopia, but Italy NEVER colonized Ethiopia. I know you understand the difference between invading a country and colonizing a country.

I can’t even begin to tell you the level of adoration and utter respect I grant the Ethiopian people for their power. Ethiopia is the only country in the entire world that has NEVER been colonized. Ethiopia is the only country in the entire world that has NEVER lost a single war! No matter how great England, France or America may be on an international scale, they will never be able to boast that record.

(Many religious scholars believe that the reason Ethiopia has never lost a war and has never been colonized is b/c they have the ark of the covenant. I wholeheartedly believe this. But that’s another topic.)

What I know about the wars between Italy and Ethiopia is contrary to what you stated. Italy and Ethiopia only had 2 wars and each war only lasted 1 single year each. So what did you mean when you said Ethiopia spent “many years” fighting the Italians?

The first time, Ethiopia cleaned the gutters with Italy. Ethiopia defeated them with great victory. The second time wasn’t that easy, but Ethiopia still won!

Think of it like a boxing match. Just b/c someone gets off a few really good hits in the first couple of rounds, doesn’t mean they are going to win the fight.

The second time, Italy invaded Ethiopia, with craft and skill, the Ethiopians weren’t ready, and Italy out numbered them. Yes the Italians killed a lot of Ethiopians and got “some good hits in the first few rounds”, but Ethiopia regrouped and came back and won the fight. This war only lasted ONE single year. The Italians invaded for only ONE year. You can’t colonize a country if you’re only there for ONE year, especially if that year is spent in war!

Italy came the closest at giving Ethiopia a run for its money, but in the end, Ethiopia still ended up on top. So it can’t even be said that Italy won a war against Ethiopia, much less colonized it!

As I’ve stated, I believe that Ethiopia and other African countries has fallen into modern day poverty b/c of corrupt governance.

You and JJG have stated that you believe colonization is the reason why African countries have fallen into poverty. But Ethiopia was never colonized, so again I ask you, how do you explain Ethiopian poverty?

I think your #50 was attempting to blame WAR for Ethiopian poverty, but as we all know, every country fights wars, and they don’t end up like Ethiopia currently is (especially since it has been several years after those wars, might I add). And war doesn’t equal colonization, so please help me understand why you mentioned the different wars Ethiopia fought, and how it relates to our discussion on colonization.

What do you think tangibly contributed to Ethiopian poverty? Do you have something else?

Are you willing to allow any room that something other than colonization contributed to other African countries deprived state? If not, why?

67. Lovely209 wrote:

Even though I don’t leave comments, i read this blog all the time. And I must say, after reading this post and the last post on Souljah Boy, Tanya your ideas and thoughts on slavery do sound similar to Souljah Boy and Peterson. Now keep in mind this is just MY opinion. I mean if you want to talk facts, Cezar presented the evidence rather convincingly… However, if you feel misunderstood, then you should work on articulating your thoughts and ideas. You should make sure what you say or write actually means what you want it to.

Second, I am kind of disappointed in you. In #57 you said that you were moving forward in peace, then in #60 you said you would smack a fellow ‘Shop member! That’s not playing nicely Tan.. Lol. No how can expect people to take you seriously?? And keep in mind, I am one of the few, if not only, people that actually enjoy your comments.. So I am not trying to attack you like some…

68. Tanya wrote:

Lovely209,

I think you are Cézsar!

He thought Mrs. Pickeron was me when her comments sounded similar to mine, and I think he only believed that I would do something so silly and pathetic as comment under a different name, to gain support, b/c he knew HE would make-up a character just to gain support.

But in the very rare case that you are not Cézsar, I’ll respond to you.

First I think everyone understands that, SB didn’t give his thoughts on slavery. He gave a sarcastic “shout out”. Whether you think that shout out was inappropriate or not is one thing, but the young boy didn’t didn’t present an argument for or against slavery!

But if you think my thoughts on slavery are similar to Peterson’s, I can’t help you. I think I articulated my point best in #58. I think #58 clearly defines the difference. I wish I could do something else to help you understand, but #58 is the best I can do! I think anyone seeking to understand the difference, will, from reading #58 alone.

Also, Cézsar didn’t present any “evidence”! Cézsar quoted me in part, and out of context. Cézsar mixed half comments from different numbers, that were responding to different points, and mixed them together to give it the illusion of something that it’s not. Cézsar made up his own “evidence”. If you read the comments on the other post then I’m sure you recognized that. What Cézsar did was spin.

To me, spin is one of the most evilest things around. Only evil people take other people’s words and intentionally use them to represent something that it wasn’t intended to represent. Only evil people say someone said something that they didn’t say.

“Thy shall not bear false witness on your neighbor.” – The 9th Commandment.

There is nothing worst then maliciously twisting someone’s words into something that it is not. That’s bearing false witness. It’s lying, and the devil is a liar!

Others have already identified Cézsar’s intentional spin on my words in other posts, and WYLTK identified that he is a “master manipulator”.

So YES, I said I would smack the living day lights out of him. And NO that doesn’t conflict with me moving forward in peace. My peace is with everyone else in the ‘Shop, NOT him! You can’t make peace with the devil. And I think you can gather that I believe him to be evil.

As I stated in #60 (the same # were I said I would smack him), “You can’t be nice to evil, and you’re not suppose to try.”

If you read my comments fully, you’ll completely understand what I’m saying, and what I mean!

But thanks for sharing your thoughts!

69. Mrs. Rivers wrote:

no need to apologize when you will repeat the same cycle next week. but for what its worth, your not arrogant just not as bright as you wish to be. if you insist on something being FACT, put a reference next to it and no one will challenge you.
now I’m on vacation but will gladly do the research and get to you about ethiopia. because I have finally realized the only way to communicate with you is through FACTS.
but let me remind you this is an opinions blog. you leave it, you laugh, and you let it go. you want to talk facts, join your local glee club and talk about it over brie and chardoney.

70. Cézsar wrote:

Aw. An apology that would make Hillary Clinton proud. So touching I almost cried…you know, like Hillary did on the campaign trail, while simultaneously trying to kill off Obama. Oh such overwhelming sincerity! It seems her master class has been heeded…

You know, like, “why can’t we just love our enemies and thank them, over and over again, until they beg us to stop! If only the world could just see what I see in them *sniff sniff*. Fucking bastards, you can’t be nice to evil, and you’re not suppose to try. Don’t you know who I am?! I am Akhmed and…I kill you!” **Oops! Did I say that last bit out loud? I was meant to keep that in my head. D’oh!**

Once again, let the evidence speak for itself…

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“Thank God for slavery because, you know, had not, then the Blacks over here would have been stuck in Africa. You see how bad Africa is. Everybody and their mama trying to get out of Africa to come to America, and so God has a way of looking out for folks who made it possible by way of slavery, uh, uh, to get Black folks to this country.

…the white man for going there and getting us and bringing us here, I wanna say thanks.”

Tanya (from “11/07/08 Embarrasing Negro Moment”):

“If the slave masters didn’t bring black people here, they would most likely, still be in Africa, suffering and living in deprived conditions.

Think how much better off blacks here in America are in comparison to the majority of blacks in Africa!

Thanking your enemies is a Christian practice!”

Jesse Lee Peterson:

“…100% American. Proud of it, I thank God that he saw fit for me to get here. Nevermind that we were sold, I mean by, I guess by ancestors way back way yonder when, were sold by Arabs and Blacks to the white folks who got us here. The white man came and brought us to the greatest country in the world.”

Tanya (from “11/07/08 Embarrasing Negro Moment”):

“The opportunities in America are ONLY so b/c of our democracy! That’s why America is the greatest country in the world! No other country has the democracy that we have!

If the slave masters didn’t bring us here (despite the all the pain it caused – trials and tribulations) most of us would be in African right now STILL suffering under that government structure, and NOT experiencing all the freedoms and privileges (blessings) we have here!”

^Now if that’s not singing from the same hymn sheet, I don’t know what is. Oh how the truth never lies. Embarassing Negro moment indeed! No amount of “nuancing” can put humpty dumpty back together again on this one. Tut tut tut. So sad. So so sad.

71. Lovely209 wrote:

Wow Tanya. I will pray for you. I can’t believe you get so angry about comments made by people you don’t even know and people you will never see. Seriously, what happened to respectfully disagreeing with one another? Wow are these posts really that deep? Are they really worth the 50+ comments that you leave defending your assertions? I mean you take these posts way too seriously; so much so, that you even think Cezar would create a fictional person to defend him. All I can say is WOW…

72. Tanya wrote:

I don’t get angry about anything on here. No, it’s not that serious. But I do, at times, become frustrated by other’s comments. Just like I’m sure some are, at times, frustrated by my comments.

I am positive that Cézsar would create a fictional character to defend himself, b/c that was the first thing Cézsar believed when Mrs. Pickeron left her comments. I never, ever, even thought about making up an fake character to support me, even though I am often in the minority opinion on here. And I would have never imagined that someone else would do something so silly. So why in the world would Cézsar believe that I made up Mrs. Pickeron? B/c HE knew HE would make up a fictional character, that’s WHY!

Even after Mrs. Pickeron made it clear that she was NOT me, Cézsar continued to reference us together as though we were one and the same. Only someone who would be willing to make up a fictional person would continue to, despite evidence to contrary, accuse someone else of doing it.

Cézsar accused me of being Mrs. Pickeron although it was obvious and proven that I was NOT.

So yes, I am positive that Lovely209 is Cézsar! Creating a fictional person was obviously an idea on his mind, and Lovely209 fits the bill!

73. Tanya wrote:

Mrs. Rivers,

“no need to apologize when you will repeat the same cycle next week.” – Mrs. Rivers

I deserve that! And I completely understand why you would believe that. I guess I can show you better than I can tell you!

“if you insist on something being FACT, put a reference next to it and no one will challenge you.” – Mrs. Rivers

That’s a good idea, but that would be so much extra work for me. I think it might be a better idea if, when someone doesn’t believe what I assert as fact is a fact, that they FIRST look it up for verification BEFORE they challenge me.

I think a lot of the time people on here just challenge me b/c they never heard the things that I said before, so they just don’t accept it, b/c they never heard it before me. But if they take the time to look it up, they just might find a reliable source that corroborates with what I said. If they don’t find anything, THEN please challenge me, and THEN I will provide my source or reference.

Others on here have said things that I didn’t hear about or know about before. But I didn’t defensively challenge them trying to prove them wrong JUST b/c I never heard it before. I went and looked it up. And if I realized that they were right, I was glad to learn something new, and moved on.

“but let me remind you this is an opinions blog.” – Mrs. Rivers

YES! But how to people form their opinions? They form their opinion based on facts! Therefore the most effective way to communicate with anyone, on anything, is to relate facts; especially when your discussing something of history or of importance.

I do understand that this is suppose to be a fun place where we talk about common pop-culture type things. But we also discuss serious matters and politics, and in that regard, yes, I like to deal with facts. Don’t you?

I look forward to continuing our discussion on Ethiopia. I am interested in what you find out from the additional research you said you are going to do, and hopefully you’ll have time to answer some of the questions I asked you.

Enjoy your vacation! Maybe you’ll be more open to the nicer me when you get back!

BTW – Glee clubs are singing clubs! They sing, they don’t discuss facts! I can’t sing and I hate chardonnay – yuck! So joining a glee club is NOT for me! But thanks for the suggestion. If you’re interested in my extra-curricular activities, I am a member of a national debate team! It’s fun, and it keeps me sharp (I like to think).

PS – Notice how Cézsar just keeps posting the same exact comment over and over again, even though NO ONE, is questioning him, that’s someone who is ridiculously “insisting on proving their point” (although their point is null and void). He just keeps posting the SAME EXACT, word for word SPIN over and over. Who posts the same exact thing over and over? That’s not someone who feels misunderstood and is trying to re-explain, that’s someone who is seriously obsessed! I think Cézsar is obsessed with me!

74. Lovely209 wrote:

Considering the fact that 99.9% of the ‘Shop members disagree with you daily, why you chose to link me to Cezar is beyond me. Yeah, Yeah, I saw where you said that he acused you of creating a fictional character. Well that whole childish notion of “He did first!” is just silly! I hate to say it but now I see why Dr. Hill stopped responding to you. You just don’t know how to quit. Well in the words of Marc, “It’s Not That Deep, and Neither are You!” Happy Holidays, Tan.

P.S: I think you’re a very intelligent woman; and like I said I actually enjoy reading your comments. You sound like an interesting individual to say the least. But part of being intelligent is knowing when to let it go. So Tanya “Just Let It Go. And Walk Away” (love jones) he. he.

75. Lovely209 wrote:

Sorry its “accused”

76. econwhat wrote:

Dr. Hill said it best in his “Down From The Tower: Time to Say Goodbye” piece on theRoot. 12/26/08 10:05 AM.

Happy Holidays Y’all and an Internally Peaceful New Year!

77. Tanya wrote:

Yeap, I am absolutely positive that Lovely209 is indeed Cézsar!

That “he. he.” is his signature!

78. Tanya wrote:

econwhat,

At your “recommendation”, I just read that piece from Marc on the Root. He did say it best, “I learned the value of and virtue of civil, respectful, and principled disagreement”.

I truly have a new commitment to that for the New Year! Being in the ‘Shop has introduced me to people who don’t think like me or have the same experiences as me. I should be thankful for this peep into a new and different “community”, not frustrated by it. So I’m going to be more respectful and more equalized in my disagreement.

Everyday I grow in a new way!!!

79. Cézsar wrote:

Another “mirror” for the internal peace challenged:

“That’s a good idea, but that would be so much extra work for me. I think it might be a better idea if, when someone doesn’t believe what I assert as fact is a fact, that they FIRST look it up for verification BEFORE they challenge me.

I think a lot of the time people on here just challenge me b/c they never heard the things that I said before, so they just don’t accept it, b/c they never heard it before me. But if they take the time to look it up, they just might find a reliable source that corroborates with what I said. If they don’t find anything, THEN please challenge me, and THEN I will provide my source or reference.”

^A perfect illustration of laziness, conceit, and arrogance if there ever was one. Thou must rid thyself of these things and learn that the burden of proof is on the claimant. Meaningful growth begins with conscientiousness.

Canst thou not see that the ’shop does not believe thee, thou needst more people? LMAO!

80. Courtney wrote:

Tanya,

OMG! I’ve read hundreds (literally) of Dr. Hill’s posts and have responded maybe once.

But I had to stop here to highlight the fact that you talked about your thoughts of slapping someone on the same page where you quoted the 10 Commandments!!! wtf???

You’re outta control! lmao!

And, no…
I am not Cezsar!

Wow…

81. Tanya wrote:

Hi Courtney!

I remember your ONE comment! You said you thought I was a white person pretending to be black on this blog! LOL Now that was funny! (I hope you don’t REALLY believe that!)

In response to your #75:

I guess I can see where you’re coming from, kinda.

But the 10 Commandments don’t say anything about not smacking someone! In fact, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Episcopalian or Catholic traditions, but when someone completes their Confirmation in those churches the Bishop literally gives them a good smack across the face! It’s intended to “smack the sin” (evil) out of you.

Also, I’m sure you know who Angel Gabriel is. Well, do you know who Angel Michael is? Angel Michael is GOD’s Warrior Angel. Both Jews and Christians recognize him as the one who beat up the devil. Angel Michael is the leader of The Army of GOD! Angel Michael never hesitated to smack evil. And Angel Michael is “the closest to the Lord”!

Above I quoted the 9th Commandment – “Thy shall not bear false witness…”. Which basically means don’t lie ON people and don’t twist peoples words to present them as something they are not (spin).

Cézsar has made it his mission to manipulate my words, and twist and spin any and everything I say! I consider that evil. Cézsar is bearing false witness on me, repeatedly and intentionally. Cézsar is clearly obsessed with me, which is again illustrated by #74.

(In #68, I suggested that if someone doubts a fact I present to them, to double check it BEFORE they challenge me on it. Which only makes sense, doesn’t it? You’re not going to argue against something without knowing for sure whether it’s true or not. Right? I mean, are you going to argue with someone that Denzel Washington’s middle name isn’t Hayes, without checking to see if it is, first?!?! And doing the research FIRST, is exactly was Mrs. Rivers said she would do in #64 before continuing to challenge me on Ethiopia, “[I] will gladly do the research and get to you about ethiopia.” – Mrs. Rivers. That is only the most responsible thing to do! But obsessed Cézsar had to add his misguided and twisted 2 cents!)

Listen, I don’t condone violence or fighting or attempting to hurt someone, in anyway. But a good smack might just simmer Cézsar’s obsession down.

Don’t ya think?

82. Clifton Harrison wrote:

Wow. I’m glad i stopped a whole 60 something comments earlier. Just skimming over all of this made my head hurt.

Tanya, you seem to be a “but” person.

“I hear what you are saying…BUT”
“I agree, next time i’ll change. BUT”
“maybe your right, i’ll tone it down. BUT”

Maybe you should try just listening..

83. DCI74 wrote:

What??? Lurkers coming out of the woodwork, fictional characters, bipolar comments, omg!
it’s a conspiracy, a c-o-n-spiracy lol

84. Mikal wrote:

I understand what this dude is saying but he brings to many praises to slavery. Like on the Matrix, what happened happened and it couldnt have happened any other way. Our ancestor bleed and worked and earned for use the right to benefit from the work they was made to put in. We should praise God for slavery we should praise God for the Slave that after the abuse still fought and died for this country. The African slave created devices and music and new medical break throughs. The African slave was the victims NOT US. Not the young adults who didnt go through Jim Crow. We must move on stop playing victim and praise the slave for enduring and winning in the end. Thank god that the concept of the United States and its constitution is what perservered in the end. Praise that the words of the declaration of independence that we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal.

Dont praise slavery Praise the Strong, African Slave.

85. Mikal wrote:

Im sorry we should not praise god for slavery is what i meant to say