1. Tom Penn wrote:

The only thing that L’il Kim’s image can bring to today’s Public Schools, is a lesson in how to offer perjurious testimony while under oath in a court of . That is her legacy, and no taxpayer funded educational instiution should ever raise her name or story in the classroom.

2. Tony Keith wrote:

hmmm….didn’t realize that Westinghouse was a common denominator for these artists. Certainly the traditional White American value of education continues to play its trump card when contradictions to black intellectual inferiority join the game. I wish I could be as romantic about the idea that one day the education system would take a more multicultural approach to teaching, learning, and recognizing brillance of young people of color. But…a hopeless romantic am I…..

What makes this more unfortunate is that the type of discernment that it takes for someone to recognize these untapped talents is forced to be silent under oppresive educational policies. There’s no room for creativity and innovation when “teaching-to-the-test” is the signature on an educator’s next paycheck. At the miniumum they can incorporate Jay-Z’s impeccable metaphors and vocabulary in their English classes….that’s certainly indigenous knowledge worth noting…sheesh….

3. David wrote:

We shouldn’t fault schools for not recognizing creative talent. It would be different if schools didn’t recognize their students’ academic talent. School is about academics, not extracurricular activities. Said rappers eventually excelled in rapping, not academics. It pains me to say that Lil Kim “excelled” in rapping. Nevertheless, this article would be more relevant if said rappers went to a performing arts high school and their talent was never recognized by the school’s staff. I’d like to know how many intellectuals/professionals emerged from substandard inner city schools, not how many entertainers or athletes eventually “blew up.”

4. Tony Keith wrote:

@ David – i think you hit the nail on the head…the term “academic” is not defined. I’d argue that “extra” and “curricular” go hand in hand when it comes to the holistic education of young people. Life skills require them to be creative and critical thinkers – why not include these in pedagogical practices? A performance arts school is great for those young people whose talents have already been tapped or who have access to those types of institutions. I’m not an expert on any artist from the hip hop community, but i would imagine that Biggie, Jay-Z, and Lil Kim’s bio reflects a life of making due with what you got.

I think the more we differentiate the brilliance and credibility of a “intellectual/professional” that emerged from substandard inner city schools from “entertainers or athletes” the more we create a system of social divide. No one talks about the skill and brilliance it takes to even run a sports play or the creativity invovled in developing a sick rap game – yet, all require leadership on some level.

5. Aaron wrote:

There are more job advertisements for nurses, engineers, paralegals, teachers, accountants, analysts and electricians than there ever will be for rappers with household names. Producing more hip hop artists is far from the answer, though I see your perspective very well. We’ve been entertaining since we got to this country and it has been free for the most part. More power to those entertainers that can capitalize on their abilities but the majority of talented artists are starving artists. We need to focus on motivating kids to get involved in subjects that will lead to them making a decent living. All of the above jobs pay well enough to bring you to middle class. Education is not something that will make you rich or get you on TV, it is something that will make you capable of being employed.

6. Mario wrote:

However David I believe that is one of the problems with schools. Why are the arts ignored so? Doesn’t music, dance, art, and theater/ cinema have a profound impact on our lives including social movements? Kids with artistic talents should not be ignored just because they are not in an arts school. It’s nice if a student is good in math and science, but I believe we should stop placing their achievements higher than students who excel in the social sciences and arts.

7. MsBlake wrote:

I agree with both David and Mario! I think both traditional academia and the arts should be recognized in public schools, however, education in the most traditional sense is fundamental. It is important for America’s youth to have basic reading and math skills. Lil’ Kim and Jay-z used unconventional means to achieve their version of the American Dream and that is ok for Lil’ Kim and Jay-Z. However, it should not be the standard that we teach our children. Why? Simply because the odds of being the next Jay-Z are against them. Should we embrace and nuture their talents? Absolutely! Is it important for these skills to be recognized in public schools? Yes! Yet, it is very necessary to know how to read, write, understand basic math, and become critical thinkers.

8. Ida Byrd-Hill wrote:

As you move to your new faculty position I would love to discuss my concept and 1 year pilot Hustle & TECHknow Preparatory High School, a cyber school, with you.

9. EminemsRevenge wrote:

I got basically a high school education since i couldn’t AFFORD college…and if you hit my SN link you’ll see that i must’ve learnt something somewhere…methinks it was the library. The first thing i asked someone when i move to Harlem was WHERE IS THE NEAREST LIBRARY…ditto when i cross countried it to Sacramento!

Learning was instilled in me by Martin and Malcolm, but Black MEN have to keep their learning on the down low because Massuh don’t like the fact that WE are ten times smarter than HIM

10. R.oB. wrote:

Great post, Marc. Even I think Tom Penn’s post was hot garbage in it’s myopia, he does have a point. Queen bitch is an image we have to nuance. If girls aren’t for sale (FB), then we need to keep it real. Hate the sin so to speak..

11. ~JJG~ wrote:

I definitely get the message of this post, but Lil Kim “iconic”…I will have to disagree. I’m no hip hop historian/expert, but didn’t Biggie (initially) write Kim’s rhymes? Can she even rap? For real, I am so unaware that she is able to rap, which is why I hated that they implied that Kim could rap in the Biggie movie.

12. DCI74 wrote:

…but Black MEN have to keep their learning on the down low because Massuh don’t like the fact that WE are ten times smarter than HIM”

Umm what?? It’s 2009 EminemsRevenge so I hope you were just being sarcastic but if not please enlighten me; who are these black men choosing to keep learning on the down low and who is Massuh/HIM?

13. Marc Lamont Hill wrote:

Rob,

I agree. But, contrary to what tom’s post implied, I never said that we should talk about little kim’s rap music in school. i said that Lil Kim clearly had talent that went unrecognized in school. I believe that we need to find ways to link her out-of-school talents to in-school demands. For example, many of the implicit understandings of literary form and style that rappers use in their work can be used to teach traditional english literature. This is why David’s division between creative and academic talent is both arbitrary and false. With regard to the “Queen B****” stuff, I do believe that there is a place in school for critical media literacy, so that many of Tom’s concerns about Kim would be addressed i healthy, productive, responsible, and emancipatory fashion. Anyway, I unpack ALL of these issues in my book.

14. EminemsRevenge wrote:

DC174—I noticed Obama’s been Sambo shuffling lately…but judging from your comment you must be one of those “post-racist” punks who done overcome…but last time i looked, neither the GOP or the NYPD use the term “N word”…..
http://x76.xanga.com/d71c610b56134178842856/m136493172.png

15. From the hood to Yale wrote:

To call Westinghouse a “ghetto” school only discloses how much more you need to choose your words effectively as well as doing some research on who the rough names of inner city, five borough high schools really are. Westinghouse is exceptional compared to real hard knock schools like Grover Cleveland High School and Franklin K Lane. We had metal detectors and school shootings before the Columbine tragedy and no one ever paid us any mind. It is no surprise why Jay Z is such a weak and far from lyrical rapper which no rap sheet to begin with but constantly states how great he thinks he is on every single track. The over-obvious statements he makes continues to make the goons go “ooohhh worddd”. So he went to a good high school…why am I not surprised?? Let us not forget those nice catholic school uniforms Biggie wore ( I love BIG though). I love Kim too but she is nothing overly special. Bustah Rhymes is a gifted lyricist with a prolific career but has no real message. Coming from such chaos as an adolescent all the way to embarking on a top Ivy like Yale, I have witnessed that artistic and musical brilliance is sprinkled not only in nice Brooklyn high schools and dangerous high schools but everywhere and on every level. Educational activists know these kinds of things.

16. Martin wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjR6Htckdc