Comments on: The Corner of Cross and Damon

By: Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com

Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:28:16 +0000

Matt, no beef. I respect what you do. The discussion is good. Getting a handle on this while still in the midst of the hip hop movement, and at it’s current state, is a daunting task.

Wow, what a movement! No matter how it started. Kool Herc, Grand Master Flash, and those guys took disco songs and James Brown records mixed and scratched the hell out of them until the late 70’s when upstart record companies starting pressing the NYC MC’s rhymes on wax. It did start an economic movement. So I’m cool with that.

The songs they used were being played on the radio, in the corner bar’s jukeboxes, and from their mommas and papas record collections. Then the hunger and thirst for it made radio play it on the late night mix on Friday and Saturday and it’s been “on” ever since.

Peace

By: matt

matt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:57:50 +0000

Thanks for reading DC,
I agree. I would also add that the wave of caribbean immigration to the South Bronx after the construction of the Cross BX Expressway was vitally important to the birth of hip hop.

By: matt

matt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:54:54 +0000

Thatjonesboy,
Thanks for reading. I agree that all of the movements you mentioned can be thought of as the child of unemployment. I decided to single out hip hop because unemployment rates at the time it emerged were much higher than they were at other times, largely because factories in New York had begun moving and closing while other jobs were being eliminated because of technological advancements. In New York there were a gang of kids who needed something to do that they could make a little money doing. Thanks again for reading.

By: matt

matt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:43:16 +0000

Joe from PA,
I ain’t mean to start no beef now. I agree with you actually. Everybody likes a good party. Because of this, people can make money throwing them. This was how Herc got started. His sister threw a party and he realized he could make money playing the same records he was playing at his sister’s party, which by the way were records that weren’t getting radio love. In that way, I’m saying economics are important to the birth of hip hop. I didn’t say cats didn’t started it as a way to get paid. However, because unemployment was dumb high, it became a form of labor. Thanks for reading and commenting.

By: Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com

Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:19:51 +0000

I just don’t see this economic connection. I believe many commentators over-romanticize the hip-hop “movement”. To suggest it became the dominant musical art form in the Black community because it was a way to relieve economic conditions in the community would also mean that the majority of community became rappers and mix tape-ologist. That of course is ridiculous. Although many tried…lol

The benefactors of the culture were Adidas, Nike, and Jacob the Jeweler. Of course I’m being facetious on a certain level.

For the consumers of the culture, hip-hop represented entertaiment and musical expression at it’s flyest.

I believe the discussion here was initiated over it’s “birth”. Now what developed beyond it’s origin is totally different in terms of what it became as a social and political movement.

I’ll say it one more time. Hip-hop was “birthed” out of the fact that the MC wanted to move the crowd. Nothing more, nothing less. The same way the Black radio DJ had the rapid rhyme patter delivered over the airwaves. Go to my website and check the Black Radio History page. “Jocko” had a big influence on early hip-hop. The early cats grew up listening to him on the radio in NYC in the 1960’s. Then things exploded when Mr. Magic’s Rap Attack came to WBLS.

I think we need a different perspective here.

Who doesn’t like a good party? Black people have been going to shows at places like the Apollo for the longest time. Now instead of seeing 10 acts in one night, all you needed at the beginning of hip-hop was some records, two turntables and a microphone. This of course this made economic sense.

Let me go old school. Stop bitin’ on Matt and think.

By: DCI74

DCI74 — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:33:23 +0000

This was a really good read Matt and shows that creativity can grow in some of the most dire circumstances. I would also through in 2 other factors that also played a part in the birth of hip hop: the construction of the Cross Bronx Expressway and changes in NYC real estate law that basically gave little reason for many landlords to maintain their properties. So once the government came and paid people for their homes the ones that were renting moved out because buildings were being neglected and there were a host of other attractive neighborhoods to them in Long Island and Brooklyn Heights. Then when the initial constructed was completed in 1963 those that couldn’t afford to leave were still there along with other displaced families, seven years later James Brown released “Sex Machine” and a guy from Jamaica named Kool Herc got the record and the rest is history.

By: thatjonesboy

thatjonesboy — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:03:41 +0000

Matt, i have only heard people refer to hip hop as the natural evolution from or child of the black arts movement. from my understanding that movement was an important part of the black power movement as it advanced the cultural needs of the people and served as a tool of the political/revolutionary movements. i in fact believe that all the movements refered to in your piece can in some way be understood as “the child of umemployment” because inherently in each there was the underlying idea of the right to work without the shackles of oppression (which you pointed out as different positions). black people needed jobs after slavery, before and during the civil rights, black power and hip hop movements. i do believe that the later were more effective at creating those jobs. i also believe that philosophically both the civil rights movement, black power movement and hip hop at one point worked toward and have the same goal. it is the particular time in which it each was birthed that framed the methods and approach. a lot of which came from the charismatic leaders who helped fram and shape the movements. i enjoyed your piece. it was definetly a perspective i hadn’t heard. please share your thoughts on my comments.

By: james

james — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:13:45 +0000

never really thought about the origins of hip hop in this way. thanks.

By: Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com

Joe from PA - urbanradionation.com — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:47:41 +0000

I totally disagree with the premise here. The “birth” of hip hop was a way to provide money for the so-called economically distressed people in New York is not logical. However Matthew is correct on one point; it has nothing to do with the civil rights or the Black power movement. By the 80’s I would say it became an economic resource in NYC, but it’s not the cause of it’s birth.

Folks have been hustlin’ in a number of ways in Black communities for a number of years. People have been having “rent” parties and Friday night “fish fry” in our communities dating back to the 1930’s in places like Harlem, when Black people were allowed to move uptown and rent overpriced apartments carved out of the brownstone homes located uptown.

What’s the difference here? People took the parties outside and technology (and an extention cord) at the time enabled the party host to play more records and announce what was going on to the audience. A lot better than playing a stack of 45’s or 78’s in a cramped apartment.

I say the birth of hip hop is nothing more than a way to have some fun, relieve some stress, party, and a form of expression born out of the frustration of maybe not having enough.

I’ll give some examples. As a youngster I remember going to huge block parties. At least I thought they were huge. (My memory is a little fuzzy here.) I remember tagging along with older cousins in Queens to a park in the mid 70’s. What was it? It was nothing more than a gathering, an outdoor party. A place where girls and guys danced on weekend afternoons and checked each other out. I doubt anyone called it hip hop. It was free.

I also remember seeing graffiti, in particular “Cornbread”, spray-painted all over West and North Philly in the 70’s. Cats soon started copying this. Now was he employed? Probably not. Was he making any money doing this? No. Was he expressing his frustration? Yes, why else would he write his name all over the city. It’s recognize now as being a part of the early hip hop culture.

I heard Nile Rodgers from the R&B group Chic on a radio show just last night. Someone told him all hip hop was; “…was taking what was hip and making everyone hop to it…”. So he was amazed when dj’s would rap and scratch on his song “Good Times” for two hours straight. He had never seen anything like it.

What happened next? It was taken to the clubs, recorded and put on cassette tapes and eventually made it to radio.

Just call me old school, not a hip hop elitist.

By: carisma

carisma — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:08:12 +0000

I agree that hip hop is a product of ghetto life, whether it’s gangs, drug use/dealing, unemployment, violence, poor education, and lack of self respect. How can people that are uneducated, self loathing, and have their priorities in the incorrect order have a positive affect on the urban communities? How can fools teach fools or blind lead the blind?

The beginning of hip hop had warnings of a future failure. People didn’t have jobs or education but they spent money on parties and luxury. If the unemployment rate was so high, how did people have money to spend on parties? The drug trade, this is the same trend in current hip hop. Ignorance was bliss.

The death of hip hop was when ignorance was allowed access to money and a mic. In hip hop’s early stages, many were putting knowledge into their lyrics, but most abandoned the conscious hip hop due to gangster rap being more profitable. The death of hip hop was a combination of ignorance and no self preservation. We allowed outsiders to dictate what hip hop was and what it meant. Letting white, rich, CEOs tell you how to think, look, and what to rap about. When I was younger in the late 80s and early 90s, hip hop was anti-establishment. Now, these kneegros (knee begging blacks) knock the door down to sign with these shady companies. No leadership or sense of community in the hip hop world. It’s all about selfishness and hating on the other man/woman.