1. james wrote:

so matt, now that america has eased up a little on the racist sentencing policies surrounded crack, what effect do think this will have on the black community and/or the united states economy?

2. wow wrote:

do you ever write an article in which you don’t mention crack?

3. zhana wrote:

I think we should be weary of seeing this new legislation as easing racist sentencing policies. I think its only 19,500 ppl who are eligible to APPLY (i cant stress this enough) for time reduction. (not necessarily release). I think we have to always go beyond the 1990s when we talk about the US prison system. Black employment in US prison system (hence prison industrial complex) goes beyond the 1990s. For example, after the civil war the US southern economy was build on prison labor, whether the convict lease system, chain gangs many mining/coal companies profited from Prison labor. From late nineteenth century to early twentieth century mining companies had a virtual monopoly on convict labor in the us south. Historically prisons have been a site of profit because yes they employ so many ppl [from guards to inmates (cheaply, i.e victorias secret etc0)] but also because since they make some type of profit they ofsett sometimes the cost of the state to maintain the inmates. This is why we see an uprise in investment in private prisons. I think this is the false costs that are assumed by individual capitalists and that the state is relieved of not sure on this last point…
good piece!

4. matt wrote:

Hey james,
Thank for reading and commenting. Your question is excellent and very important. Short answer from is, I don’t know. Longer answer, which is still evolving, is that if more money is not spent on education in general, both communities will experience some serious long term difficulties. Rural unemployment rates my increase causing serious problems with small town economies while black communities may experience an increase in the population that is not employable because of a criminal record. Unemployable people, regardless of race, tend to become a drain on whatever communities they are a part of. because of this, its important that concerned people develop several programs that will some how absorb unemployable people into their communities. I’m not sure if that makes a lot of sense so if it doesn’t, please let me know and I’ll try a little better.

5. matt wrote:

Hey Zhana,
Thanks for reading and commenting. I agree completely on your point about sentencing and the historical use of prison labor. I think its equally important to recognize that, because prisons are the largest employers in a number of rural areas, today marks the first time that that not only private prisons and the companies that contract prison labor benefit from high incarceration rates. In addition to the people you’ve named that benefit, whole towns benefit from the construction of prisons because they jobs provided to corrections officers, prison doctors and other prison staff are the mainstay of their economy. The fact that people’s liveliehood requires full prisons is really a scary reality.

6. DCI74 wrote:

The hard part is trying to convince the political power brokers that education is a valuable resource and should be treated as an investment in the future. It’s so easy to put people in jail and see that as a good thing versus investing in the people with the hopes they can avoid being caught up in the system.

7. james wrote:

matt, your answer made pretty good sense. may i ask what a “prison communication device” is?

8. matt wrote:

lol. hey james. intercoms and what not. i found a magazine recently called “prison industry trade magazine” that has all kinds of stuff that is used only by prisons. they got prison phones, benches, beds, all kinds of stuff depends on prisons to stay afloat. the magazine has really taught me a lot.

DC,
I agree. Thanks for reading. I had a real interesting conversation with my pops about that and he, a middle class white man in michigan, was of the opinion that an economy that requires full prisons is morally repugnant. I wonder if it makes sense to begin to raise questions like, “If our society requires this, what kind of society do we live in?” and “Is that the kind of society we want to live in?” as a way to deal with political power brokers. What you think man?

9. zhana wrote:

thanks matt..i def agree with u..
i think education is a good alternative..but also think we have to be careful…i think a lot of what is missing in the organizing motto ‘educate dont incarcerate’ is the extent that education system has been a pipeline to the prison system. A lot of times we as educators, activists, etc miss out on is that although the prison as such is a historical institution (which is very real today, and as matt points out ppls livelihood is dependent upon) the education system, the pj’s, etc the list goes on have to a certain extent served as prisons also…

10. DCI74 wrote:

AT&T, IBM, Motorola, Compaq, Texas Instruments, Honeywell, Microsoft, and Boeing are just a few of the companies that have profited from the prison industrial complex.

11. matt wrote:

Zhana thats a real important point. Thanks for pointing that out. Since that is the case, do you have any insight on what we can do do to move away from an educational industrial complex (if you will) and move towards a paradigm that involves educating for humanity more generally? I know a lot of folks looking to build around that very point you raise.

12. zhana wrote:

not to mention schools..corcoran (whose tag u can plainly see by lifting the chairs)also lehman brothers (major investor in private prisons, who bought sodexho’s stocks)so everytime a dorm goes up they contract lehman brothers who reinvests their profits in prisons.

13. zhana wrote:

i mean thats just what i been thinking on..esp when i talk to ppl in my community or just my students..I mean i feel im the least that could speak on this issue..i have my own guilt trips about pursuing higher ed..
.there is some movement away from university education..i heard of this portugese dude boaventura sousa who has written some on popular universities..there is also the Escuela Popular Norteña, which i heard of thru argentinian scholar Maria Lugones (suny binghamton)..i think even critical resistance is starting one..and some ppl are pushing the freire model….

14. matt wrote:

maria lugones is that deal. you at bingo?

15. zhana wrote:

yup..back in sept in the ivory tower of power..

16. thatjonesboy wrote:

matt,
if you don’t mind me jumping in on your convo with zhana about moving away from an educational industrial complex…i’ve had many conversations concerning that myself and i think the most immediate way is to inject the system with teachers who are presently not represented….more black men….this is not to say that everyone is not needed but as an educator i see a huge disparity in the make up of some classes and whose teaching them…i believe if we had more black men committing themselves to teaching in public school on every level then going on to hold administrative positions then the culture of the classroom, boards and system as a whole would change….of course it would take a least a generation to take effect but i don’t see why individuals who bear no responsibilty to the communities most affected would all of a sudden desire a policy change…i hope that was clear…trying to say it in as few words as possible…

17. zhana wrote:

i couldnt agree more..i think change has to happen at all levels..at the same time students (here im thinking about high school for example) still have to be taught to pass the regents. so there is this catch 22 because in the regents they have to answer (here hypothetically speaking) that christopher columbus discovered america. So i def agree with you that it has to go beyond the classroom…i mean i think its that way with any type of organizing to be successful it has to go beyond the confines of the workplace, classroom etc to where ppl live, their day to day etc…
whatever..maybe being a lil idealistic here..

18. DCI74 wrote:

Matt I think the question you raised is a solid one and we have to remember that “we” are society, so we should ask ourselves if this is the kind of society we want to live in. I think one of the problems is honesty and zhana highlighted that perfectly when talking about columbus. Think about it, we live in a country that still celebrates that lame ass holiday and teaches our kids in school that he somehow discovered a country that was already inhabited. So if the focus is going to be on education we have make sure the quality is not only up to par but accurate.

19. John wrote:

Today that number has grown to 2.3 million, the overwhelmingly majority of which are non-white, non-violent offenders.

Actually, the percentage of black inmates in state and federal prisons remained basically the same from 1980 to 2000 (46 percent to 47 percent).

The increase in overall minority imprisonment went up only because the number of Latino convicts increased from 7 percent of the overall prison population to 16 percent, which makes sense given the dramatic increase in immigration and higher birth rates of Hispanics.

Meanwhile, Asian-Americans somehow remain impervious to our so-called prison industrial complex, accounting for just 1 percent of the overall inmate population.

The bottom line is this: our prison “problem” wasn’t driven by economics. It was driven by fear — of crime, of drugs, of repeat offenders, of not being re-elected because something horrific happened on your watch.

The war on drugs has been a dismal failure but I think most Americans have a very hardened attitude towards crime and criminals.

20. zhana wrote:

sorry my last comment..I think imprisonment yes is one thing, and some ppl can argue that it hasnt gone up..but then policing, surveillance, welfare offices keeping track of where ppl are working how much they are making, probation and parole are also part of the prison system..so lets keep that in mind also when we talk about numbers and the prison system..
if prison problem wasnt driven by economics, where did the crack come from?? although i think many ppl have a hardened attitude towards ‘crime’ and ‘criminals’ i think that is historically specific. i wouldnt say most because i havent done any surveing…but im sure if so-called white collar crime such as displacing black ppl whether in columbia, niger delta, etc was a crime and those ppl got locked up or got the death penalty for doing it..we’d have a different view of crime today…

21. matt wrote:

zhana,
word? you at bingo? i’ma be there in the fall. i just got a crib on parsons street. let me know if i can email you or, if you want, you can email me. my address is at the bottom of the article.

thatjonesboy, i agree with you. more blacl male teachers sre definetly needed in schools. however, that will only do so much if, as zhana and DC have pointed out, the whole curriculum is not overhauled. I agree with you both that we have to be careful about any kind of shit towards more education.

thanks for reading and commenting y’all. i really appreciate it.

22. DCI74 wrote:

I’m really glad you mentioned the black male teachers issue thatjonesboy because I have been trying to figure out why there are so few and more importantly what can be done about it.

A couple of years ago the teens in my summer program did a research project on teen dropouts and one of the most interesting results came from their survey which was administered to about 140 teens in the Greater Hartford (CT) area. They found that at a ratio of 4:1, girls considered teachers role models as opposed to boys. The question is why, why do young boys view education so differently than girls? I’ve seen a lot of programs and effort placed into trying to get more male teachers and some are more effective than others. I just can’t seem to figure out where the gaps are and why black men and men in general don’t see being a teacher as a viable option for a career. Personally I have been going back and forth over whether or not I should get my teaching certification so I can do more but I’m torn. The educational system is jacked up so do I go into a failed system and create change from within or work in non-traditional education environments like I’m doing now so that I can help supplement what these kids are missing and still position myself as a positive black male role model to the kids that need it the most? It’s a catch-22.

23. thatjonesboy wrote:

DC,

I’m actually about to start my first year of teachng in the public school system. So far all my experience comes via the non traditional educational system and I do have a feeling that I will miss it. But it is also important that young black kids see positive black models within the public school setting. In that regard I encourage you to get that certification. Teachers can influence curriculum ina number of ways. My thought is that I can always return to non traditional if it just doesn’t work out. I also know that everytime I’ve worked within the public school setting the kids gravitate towards me, no matter the age group. Black men will see teaching as a viable career option when they see more black men teaching (as young students). What programs have you seen to encourage more men into teaching? I have some similar thoughts and have begun thinking of ways to do something about it. Maybe we can shoot some ideas back and forth.

24. DCI74 wrote:

Exactly thatjonesboy, I definitely think if more young men saw black male teachers at every level of their education then that would make a significant difference but consistency is the key. I hear so many of my kids telling me about teachers that have quit for a number of reasons which lessens that amount of long term influence they can have. But yeah we should link up and talk about this further.

25. DCI74 wrote:

“I also know that everytime I’ve worked within the public school setting the kids gravitate towards me, no matter the age group.”

Man you sound like me because I experience that all the time. I’ve some teachers completely resent me because I’m able to make connections with kids very quickly that they have been struggling with for months and sometimes years. But I have had some teachers and administrators ask me questions like ‘what’s your secret’ or ‘what are you doing that’s so different’ and in the end my answer is always the same: I am always myself, I don’t try to sugarcoat life or reality for these kids and I don’t talk down to them. I will admit though that sometimes the attention the kids give me can be a little uncomfortable because I see how it annoys other teachers that have a hard time making that connection.

26. thatjonesboy wrote:

“I don’t talk down to them”

this covers so much ground and is essential in building a relationship through which one can teach and others can be educated. and whether its warranted or not a lot of students feel talked down to by their teachers. just imagine if young black minds had the opportunity to experience what you bring consistently on a yearly basis at the elementary, middle and high school level. the system would be forced to change from a number of factors. i just think we spend so much time critiqing the system and not enough time getting in there and being agents of change. agents of sacrifice.

what gets me is that as a profession teaching is a guaranted job almost anywhere you go in the states. and if you are a black male with skills and interest you are in high demand. when i graduated back in 2000 there were school systems practically rolling out the red carpet for me and i wasn’t even an education major! i was a young black man with a college degree, decent gpa and an interest to work with kids.

“But I have had some teachers and administrators ask me questions like ‘what’s your secret’ or ‘what are you doing that’s so different”

brother you simply have an understanding…..another essential ingredient

bruh i could go on about this for days, but i’ll stop for now.

27. DCI74 wrote:

I feel you, we’re both clearly very passionate about this and can talk forever about it.

I think you’re dead on about people spending way too much time critiquing the system instead of really come up with ways to implement change from the outside and within. I’m definitely at somewhat of career crossroads and am deciding if I want to stay with my current organization or take on some new challenges. I’ve been working in youth development for over 6 years now and I know no matter what my decision is going to be I will in some capacity continue working with urban youth. I see too much of myself in these black and brown kids so I will never give up on them. They way they latch on to me makes me realize how much brothers like you and I are really needed as I’m sure you’re already experiencing. We can change the world bruh even if it just starts with us.

28. Biany wrote:

Matt,
Thanks for this essay. I think it speaks to the need for us to really understand the connection between the prison to education pipeline. Its a scary thing to accept that prisons are needed and as society we depend on it..and to add to that the fact that our education is a system the perpetuates and maintains prisons. and vice versa (if i am making any sense.) I think your father’s response is interesting..(a society that needs prisons as morally repugnant) and definitely makes me think of the sadness I feel when I see my brother going in and out of prison and me, (same generation) as educated. How different are we? did i have something to do with his connection to in the prison system? And to connect it to the larger social systems the fact that our education system and prison systems are what we, as a society rely on in the economy makes me wonder what we need to do outside the bounds of this system.

Zhana and yourself referred to it as the “education industrial complex.” WOW!!

I see you met Zhana..who I been trying to get you to connect with and ofcourse I did not folow through..Somethings are meant to happen organically. that’s hottt!!

Again, thanks for the dialogue!! I think now we must consider action on this issue.
-Biany