1. james wrote:

okay, marc, i finally see why do you these shows–and i don’t believe it’s just for the cash now. your clarifications are probably helpful to some of the unmotivated learners who might be viewing these particularly bad programs. that blond reporter thought you were arguing about race in the end; she wasn’t even following the conversation. you were arguing about black liberation theology, its roots and main tenets.

i don’t believe rev. wright has damaged obama’s campaign with his comments; only destroyed their relationship, whatever that may have been in the context of a pastor and parishioner. i don’t think anybody who was honestly supporting obama has changed her/his mind about obama. i know i haven’t. my wife, of course, just to irritate me, has threatened to vote for mccain, but this wright business will be long gone by then. and i agree with michelle obama, i think he has handled this situation in a professional and presidential manner.

2. Logic wrote:

I like how you changed that “probably not” to an “unequivacably no.” LOL! He almost lost it at that point.

3. Janet wrote:

Is it me or did Dr. Marc look sleepy in that first clip?

Also…a question for Marc….will you really run for President?

4. www.rayandsamara.com wrote:

Is CNN overloaded in their minority count of coorespondents? Surely they can take one more black opinion over there. Why in the world would you continuously support the folks over at FOX? They are complete racists and assholes! Everytime I watch that channel, my blood pressure goes up. The dude in the last clip needs a therapist to control his issues. Look at his face when you said that America could’ve possibly given blacks AIDS. His face turned red and he couldnt sit still! Good grief what a jerk! But as usual, you handled yourself well.

5. The Truth wrote:

@#4 In response to : Why in the world would you continuously support the folks over at FOX?

Because Marc is an opportunist. He is getting his name out there. Even if it means appearing on a network such as Fox.

6. wouldn't you love to know? wrote:

i agree with you samara. dudes head looked as if it wanted to POP!…

but i must say, this was the most intense debate, i’ve seen you in marc…i can’t lie this one gave me goose bumps!…you really handled yourself well, especially in that last clip…that guy looked like he wanted to kill you….this one right here, was crazy as hell…i commend you for having the courage, to look some of these people in the face, and speak the TRUTH…

kudos to you brotha…

peace.

ps- you better learn a few moves from jesse though! “hold on!”

pss- and yes janet, the doc looked like he was gonna fall out of his chair!..LOL…get some rest!

7. The Truth wrote:

@#4: Why in the world would you continuously support the folks over at FOX?

Becuase Marc is an opportunist….national exposure will help him sell books…whenever he writes one…

8. DCI74 wrote:

Am I the only one that is tired of this story? When is it going to be over? Enough already

9. www.rayandsamara.com wrote:

DC – we all agree this story is way over its expiration date. But as long as the Republicans & Hillary cant find anything else that will ruin Obama’s chances at becoming the next president; it wont go away.

10. j wrote:

Bottom Line: White people do not want to hear that they are wrong about anything.

The church in the white community has always been part and parcel of the overbearing power structure. In the black community it has been a catalyst for uplift and change.

Reactions from the white media and public to these statements simply go back to fact that the white community (by large not in all cases) does not look to the church or any religious traditional for leadership and correction, they only look to them for atonement and affirmation. Therefore Rev. Wright’s statements are not only shocking because he is black, or because he is implicating the Gov’t in bad practices, but because he is standing as an authority and not as a yes-man.

Look forward to seeing *Marc Lamont Hill*2016* bumper stickers!

11. Logic wrote:

I agree with all of you, this should be a non issue. If people took the time to educate themselves and not base their vote on long held beliefs about African Americans, then the Democratic nomination would have been wrapped up by now. Thanks to less-educated blue collar white males (read stupid), who still think (incorrectly) that Obama is a muslim, this thing has dragged out for months.

12. CLM wrote:

I’m always a bit intrigued by why you do these interviews on Fox when they consistently interrupt you, attempt to shift your main points to their own “talking points”, and set you against the most truly ignorant persons like that stool-pigeon from California (Rev. Jesse….). I suppose there is some redeeming value and benefit in it, beyond the practice and publicity.

Now, you really did well in explaining the view of Black Liberation Theology and a brief portion of its history and span. You really are an educator; that talent is indeed required to lift our mindsets to have a meaningful discussion with about this subject.

Let me stop ranting and finish this response…

I appreciate your effort to ‘explain’ Dr. Wright’s comments. Indeed, he missed and wasted a marvelous opportunity to discuss, in depth and detail, many of his “inciendiary” remarks and comments. I truly wish he’d done so, instead of the sparring match that resulted. But, if you listen very carefully and intelligiently, you can sift through some of the antics of the Q&A period to understand that Dr. Wright’s brilliance and his skepticism of American government are solidly rooted in biblical doctrine. (A well-earned skepticism and doubt!) Your commentary really helped lift some of Dr. Wright’s more salient points from the cloud of the Q&A banter. I really appreciate your commentary.

This whole week has been tiring and disappointing. The nation is far too ignorant (on the whole) to have ANYTHING like a serious, meaningful discussion or conversation about race. Whites are too incredibly ignorant of history and their inherited privilege and advantange and too guilty by the awareness of on-going systemic racism and its murderous effects. Africans also have a blitheringly weak understanding of history in this country, the Diaspora, as well as the Continent. Too often, Africans forget that others have suffered horribly because of discrimination, even if in dissimilar ways. We’ve ignored the Native American voice, as if they exist no more. Spanish-speaking Americans are often relegated to the status of “foreigners” (including Puerto Ricans!) Our general view of Asians is to consdier them all ‘Chinese’ or, similarly, lump them into some monolithic group, notwithstanding the tremendous diversity and disagreement among peoples with heritage from that region. Collectively, we’re too ignorant to have a meaningful conversation and too obstinant to learn. So, what do we do?

I won’t answer that fully here. But, I’ll add that voices like yours raise some hope, in your efforts to clarify and educate. I pray for the success of Sen. Obama’s efforts to ‘raise’ the level of the campaign above the politics of division, whether he wins or loses. Otherwise, I think we have a hideously divisive, violent, and painful future in this country.

We’ve got to look back and then look up!

13. DCI74 wrote:

This whole topic has reached it’s expiration date and it’s just getting extremely draining. The issue has been addressed and over-addressed, I just don’t get what else there is to talk about.

14. Cézsar wrote:

Nice one Doc, but instead of back-peddling at the speed of light from “probably not” to “unequivocally no” in reaction to Shep’s selective, consciously or unconsciously supremacist, and willfully ignorant righteous indignation, you should have pointed out the fact that since anything is possible, “probably not” is indeed what you said, and meant; especially given the fact that the United States government DID INFACT inflict the Tuskegee Experiments on African-Americans and KILLED them with syphillis.

It’s not a stretch of the imagination at all that they “probably” did the same thing with AIDS, is it? Does the empirical evidence not leave open that possibility? No rational mind can ever rule out that possibility, not unless they have an agenda, or are blinded by supremacist thoughts, or just down-right scared of repacussions (none of which are concerns of the truth seeker and speaker).

The reason above all that I love Rev Wright so much is that he aint playing defense AT ALL! He’s unashamedly and unrepentantly HIM just like they are THEM. The ball aint even in his half of the court. He’s taking it straight to ‘em and they are shook coz they aint used to playing defense. But they ARE skilled in the art of “offensive-defense” and so they get other Black folk to enact the defensive stance they are feeling yet concealing. And of course in public this plays out like the same ol’ thing – they’ve been right all along, we just need to get back in line.

Not suggesting that any of this applies to you Marc, you handle yourself well. I’ve just seen this happen too many times.

15. james wrote:

as for the tuskeegee experiment, the united states conducted a controlled experiment in which hundreds of african-americans, who had syphillis, were subjected to misdiagnosis and mistreatment throughout the course of a public health study. it was not a hidden study, or a government conspiracy to eliminate blacks. it was more along the lines of the jim crow mentality applied to research, and the result was a complete revamping of the medical ethics regarding test subjects. aids has not, and never will be, a united states government conspiracy to eliminate any populations in america or the world. end of story. there is nothing comparable between the tuskegee experiment and the aids pandemic. the former was an isolated incident, the latter is a global concern.

16. ChgoSista wrote:

DC, you think YOU’RE exhausted? Try living IN Chicago–and only a mile WEST of the church, no doubt.

I have to bypass Trinity UCC every day (well, M-F, anyway), and although the media have died down from SKULKING around the church’s grounds, just simply PASSING it 2x a day is draining!!!!!

17. Tanya wrote:

Marc – I didn’t like how you changed the “probably not” to an “unequivocally no.” But I guess you had to. I’ve never seen Shep get so red. BTW- I heard FOX recently put you on their payroll. Congrats! They see your worth, and pretty soon they’re going to give you your own show!

Does Jesse Lee Peterson remind anyone else of Uncle Ruckus??????

18. Cézsar wrote:

You are not alone Tanya. This self hating negro (Jesse)soul destroyingly actually tries to nullify Black Liberation Theology by making it analogous to a hypothetical “white liberation theology” and how morally reprehensible that would be viewed…well he’s right about the latter but liberated from WHAT?! What a silly man.

Just what or who would white people have to be liberated from? The system? Because if that’s the case, then Black Liberation Theology would indeed be a GodSend to them.

Oh and James, you could be on to something here – the United States government are “probably not” involved in a conspiracy to eliminate any populations in America (read Black) or the world; perhaps it’s just the same Jim Crow mentality you speak of that is being applied to racial-cleansing research. Who knows eh?

You know what they say – if it happens once, it can happen again, and if it happens twice, you best believe it’s gonna happen a third time. But like I said, who knows eh?

19. Tanya wrote:

Hail Cezsar! I feel you!

20. www.rayandsamara.com wrote:

Amen Cezsar.

I truly beleive they (the man) created AIDS as racial cleansing against Africans. They’ve been trying to take & claim ownership of Africa since the late 1800’s. Between the AIDS epedemic, the genocides (primarily influenced by european powers), and extremely poverty & starvation; they want Africa cleansed. I cant think of a better way to do it. Dont conquer the natives, kill em first and THEN claim the land!

But this is WAY off topic and now I’m starting to sound like WYLTK. Let me hush. . . .

21. Tanya wrote:

lol – rayandsamara!

I agree with your sentiment, but not your terminology.

What they’re doing is not to “cleanse” Africa, but rather “contaminate” Africa and its people!

22. Clifton Harrison wrote:

It’s clips like these, and Michael Eric Dyson, and the like that allow me to watch Fox News and feel good knowing that their is someone representing what is right (in my opinion) and more importantly what is fair.

with that, here is a clip of Father Pfleger defending (or more so representing) Rev. Wright and Farrakhan fairly

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?videoId=1fd1c0cf-5c80-4d75-996f-bd53b2461ae0&sMPlaylistID

James, I think i will have to disagree with you on stating (as a fact) that the US Government did not inject Aids into the black community. I believe that logic may be far-fetched, but i believe that government had a hand (possibly two) in that situation.

23. Garrett wrote:

I’m looking forward to light being shed on Obama’s economic and foreign policy positions.

Of course, there are only one or two of us whities that can grasp such high-brow subject matter. The rest are too busy clinging to their guns and religion . . . you know, typical white people.

24. wouldn't you love to know? wrote:

LMAO! samara, you sound BEAUTIFUL. no need to hush….

ain’t nothing wrong with it…

25. VictoriaBR wrote:

Hey Dr. Hill, you did great (as always). I guess you deserve your nomination: http://www.bloggerschoiceawards.com/blogs/show/47322

26. Beetle wrote:

Marc you are always good on this talk shows and always get your point across but I was offended at the way you spoke about Black Liberation Theology.

Reverend Wright preaches Black Liberation Theology at Trinity United Church and has confirmed this in all his interviews.

Barack Obama has attended this church for 20 years. When he was unable to attend, Obama told Anderson Cooper that he got tapes of Rev Wright’s sermons to listen to.

Wright and Obama believe in Black Liberation Theology. This is a racist religion that claims black people are oppressed by white people. It also calls for black people to rise up and destroy the “white enemy”.

It also preaches against the separation of church and state, and Black Liberation Theology itself is a mixture of politics and religion.

Mainstream black christian ministers say that Black Liberation Theology is a racist anti-white religion.

All of the racist comments Reverend Wright made come from Black Liberation Theology, Obama’s chosen religion.

27. Regkam2 wrote:

James said, “as for the tuskeegee experiment, the united states conducted a controlled experiment in which hundreds of african-americans, who had syphillis, were subjected to misdiagnosis and mistreatment throughout the course of a public health study. it was not a hidden study, or a government conspiracy to eliminate blacks.”

If the government did not tell the gentlemen nor their wifes nor their children what they were doing, then what else would u call it expect a hidden study or a gov’t conspiracy? Do you know what the meaning of conspiracy is? To conspire means to plan in secret, to keep hidden. By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis.

James goes on to say..”it was more along the lines of the jim crow mentality applied to research, and the result was a complete revamping of the medical ethics regarding test subjects.”

That’s BS!! If it was up to most whites and their Negro puppets (Like Jesse Lee) in America, they would get rid of all of the bad that has happened in this country and just focus on the good.

James again..” aids has not, and never will be, a united states government conspiracy to eliminate any populations in america or the world. end of story. there is nothing comparable between the tuskegee experiment and the aids pandemic. the former was an isolated incident, the latter is a global concern.”

1st pt is what makes this so-called AIDS disease a pandemic? According to the CDC, an average of 16,500 people have died annually for the past 5 yrs of Aids related deaths in the US. Thats about 28 people per state per month. Over the past 20 yrs, 480,000 people have died of this particular cause (US). In the world, less than 2 million. Over 14 million people have died of heart disease in the same time span in the US alone. Another 9 million of Cancer, so what’s more a pandemic. There’s so much that the average person in America doesn’t know or understand about this so-called disease (AIDS is not a disease but a collection of 31 different diseases that are not sexually related and have been in existence for decades before).

I ask each of you to go to AliveandWell.org and go to google video and check out the documentary ‘The Other Side of Aids’ to
get a thorough understanding of HIV/AIds. A great book to purchase would be the ‘Aids hoax’ by Keidi Awadu or ‘What If Everything You Know About Aids Was wrong’ by Christine Maggiore.

‘When You Believe in things that you don’t understand, then you suffer…’ Stevie Wonder’s Superstition

28. Regkam2 wrote:

Regarding Dr Hills comments on the 2nd interview, I feel Marc that you were pussyfooting around the questions that they asked. Yes, Pastor Wright condemn America for her oppression of people of color, YES, he believes that God Damns America for her treatment of Black, brown, and red people in this country. YES, he (Pastor Wright) believes that 911 was an example of reciprocity (what goes around, comes around). So what if the interviewer gets pissed. Who cares? Many people are so arrogant that they think that America is the only country in the world and that she is above reproach. Who better to tell her of ills and sickness than African and indigenous people who reside here before Europe opens her womb and flooded this country with her outcasts, prisoners, and murderers.

29. Regkam2 wrote:

Garrett, I believe that Barack’s economic and foreign policy will look likes Bushes and Clintons presidencies. Nothing will change. He’s already in support of Israel (Is it real)and her treatment of the Palestinians (Barack kisses the ass of AIPAC as do most politicians). He has the backing of most of the mulitnational corporation and bankers who are already in control. He will continue America’s Foreign policies which terrorizes people of color globally and continue to make the rich, richer while America slowly becomes like a so-called 3rd world nation. We are in a global economy which will not be reversed. Different face, but same shyt.

30. cynthia wrote:

Jesse Lee Peterson is a “good darkie”

31. Tanya wrote:

Regkam2,

I really want you to start a blog. You have a wealth of stuff to share! I’m interested to know more about you and your beliefs!

One thing that was left out of the Tuskegee Experiment discussion here is the FACT that those evil white doctors were actually injecting healthy black men with syphilis, not just deliberately rendering a misdiagnosis and mistreatment.

32. james wrote:

tanya, that is completely untrue.

33. james wrote:

and regkam2, no conspiracy was committed. reports were routinely published on the tuskeegee experiment. conspiracies generally preceed illegal acts. the experiment was not illegal, only unethical and immoral.

and cancer and heart disease are pandemics as well.

34. james wrote:

and nobody is trying to suppress american history, the good, bad, or ugly, at least not at this moment in history.

35. james wrote:

regkam2, you keep suggesting that christine maggiore site, but there’s way too much information there for me to digest. what are you suggesting the average american do about hiv/aids.

forget about all the research and whether or not the numbers are true, if i came to you and thought i might have been exposed to this mysterious disease that makes people deathly ill, and for some reason i asked you for advice, what would you recommend i do?

36. Tanya wrote:

James – sorry to say, but it is true and one of the Docs already admitted it. Do a google search pal!

37. Regkam2 wrote:

James asked
‘forget about all the research and whether or not the numbers are true, if i came to you and thought i might have been exposed to this mysterious disease that makes people deathly ill, and for some reason i asked you for advice, what would you recommend i do?’

James unfortunately you have to do the work (research). U see to unravel a belief system, one must reprogram himself/herself (garbage out) to what he/she believes. You don’t have to digest it all in one day, but the best education is what u give yourself. If u had this so-called dis-ease, I would tell u to get Maggiore’s book that I suggested earlier and I would tell to go to google video and check out ‘the Other Side of aids’. It’s very easy to watch and understand. But you will have to educate yourself, never take my (or ANYONE’S) word to be the gospel.

And yes, Tanya, you are right. The doctors did inject the men in Tusgeekee. James, check out the book, ‘Bad Blood’.

38. Regkam2 wrote:

No, Aids/HIV is NOT a pandemic. A pandemic is defined as epidemic of infectious disease that spreads through human populations across a large region. According to the numbers I presented earlier, HIV/Aids doesn’t qualify.

James, another thing that I would ask u if you found out about having HIV/Aids, are u open to another viewpoint regarding AIDs? Do u believe that u can live with this for a long time to come? If the answer is no, then I would leave u alone because I can’t convince someone who truly believes what the media and the doctors tell them.

39. james wrote:

tanya, you do the google search and show me which doctor admitted to shooting up his patients with syphilis.

and regkam2, point out which pages in bad blood discuss the injection of syphilis. i will certainly check out those pages.

pandemics are not defined by numbers. aids/hiv is a pandemic because it’s still very active and new cases are continuing to crop up on a global level. it’s the global activity of the disease that gives rise to the term pandemic.

the only thing i’m open to is good science. if the current science is wrong regarding aids/hiv, then the diagnosis and treatments will evolve as scientists’ understanding of the disease and treatments evolves. science, however, usually runs on the basis of concensus. if the concensus regarding aids/hiv eventually shifts to a new direction, it will do so on its own, within its own community of experts, not because of anything christine maggiore, a former fashion designer, is saying or promoting in regards to aids/hiv treatment.

40. Tanya wrote:

Ignorance is Bliss!

James, sweetheart, don’t be so lazy! Why do you want me to do the goggle search and show you the answer? I already know the answer and have a profound understanding of the Tuskegee Experiment. You want an answer, you do the research. Regkam2 was kind enough to direct you to a book, and you ask him what page? I find that so funny. How about read the book!

For just a moment I would like you to use the impartial side of your brain.

1930’s – Blacks can not use the same water fountain as whites,
Blacks can not use the same bathroom as whites,
Blacks can not eat at the same restaurants as whites,
Blacks can not sit at the front of the bus,
Blacks can not receive certain medical treatments (often times little black boys and girls were refused band-aids)

Blacks were seen as, and treated as less than human. It was perfectly normal and common place to refuse Blacks of every human right, especially medical treatment. No one thought it was an outrageous thing, it was the norm.

Trygve Gjustland, Taliaferro Clark, and the most evil of all Raymond H. Vonderlehr, (all of these men had their MDs but I refuse to refer to them as doctors), wanted to study the effects of Syphilis. Do you really believe that 412 black men in an area with just a little more than 1000 blacks total, already had a pre-existing condition of Syphilis? I think NOT!

Remember, back then no one thought it was wrong to ignore black people or to not medically treat black people. But in June of 1965, Dr. Irwin J. Schatz discovered that black people were not just going untreated, (which was common practice), and became the first medical professional to object to the Tuskegee Experiment ONLY when he found out that Vonderlehr and others, had actually INJECTED these men with Syphilis.

Schatz got word to Peter Buxtin, a PHS venereal disease interviewer and investigator, who, after his own research and investigations, blew the whistle on the evil operation and called the Associated Press. The AP broke the story to the public in July 25, 1972 and that was the only cause of the experiment’s end.

This only became reprehensible to white people, who thought it was ok to make black people go to the back of the bus, and wouldn’t dare sit next to a black person in a restaurant, ONLY because the docs were CAUSING their illness and not just ignoring it/”studying” it.

Pick up the book “A Heritage of Hypocrisy”, by Holliston Perni. (and no I’m not telling you what page!)

PS- there are multiple resources that prove this. Do the research!

41. Tanya wrote:

Do I think the US government created AIDS? – I’d be more shocked if it was proven they didn’t!

42. Regkam2 wrote:

James said ‘pandemics are not defined by numbers. aids/hiv is a pandemic because it’s still very active and new cases are continuing to crop up on a global level. it’s the global activity of the disease that gives rise to the term pandemic.’

On the contrary, James. A pandemic is defined by numbers, if a disease is only confined to a small amount of people on a national or global scale it is not a pandemic. Thats common sense.

James said, ‘the only thing i’m open to is good science. if the current science is wrong regarding aids/hiv, then the diagnosis and treatments will evolve as scientists’ understanding of the disease and treatments evolves. science, however, usually runs on the basis of concensus. if the concensus regarding aids/hiv eventually shifts to a new direction, it will do so on its own, within its own community of experts, not because of anything christine maggiore, a former fashion designer, is saying or promoting in regards to aids/hiv treatment.’

James, you are very naive. Science like any other field is ran by politics and money. I gave you resources, but you are too lazy to look at them. Since you can’t give me the same and refuse too look at the info (which has the backing of over 3,000 scientists wordlwide), this discussion is futile and over.

Tanya, you kick ASS, unfortunately, James has a narrow worldview and believes everything much of what is put forth. He doesn’t not want to work to find truth. Good job, sister

43. james wrote:

regkam2, 3000 scientists hardly constitutes a pandemic of scientists condemning current aids/hiv research/treatment. do you have any idea how many scientists there are in this world? and i looked at some of those so-called scientists who signed off; many of them have no expertise in the area of aids research and treatment.

i’m not too lazy to look, i just want to be guided properly. i don’t have the time to read some books just because a couple of anonymous participants on a political blog recommend them; i want actual citations. if it’s easy enough to google it up, then why not do it? the burden of proof isn’t on me. i’m not making wild accusations about syphilis-injecting doctors. give me actual citations that directly support your beliefs and i’ll be more than happy to work on curing my nasty case of naivete.

44. Regkam2 wrote:

LOL, James are u serious? pandemic of doctors? But seriously, most of those doctors are Nobel Peace prize winners (like Peter Duesberg) and are very astute and world renown scientist in the field of microbiology and virology. James, I disagree. I’ve given u websites, books, and dvds to look at and do your own due diligence. If you want to know something, you have to research for yourself. There’s nothing much else I can say or do. Its on you to find out and stop making excuses. It’s not that you don’t have time, you choose to not do the work. You are Lazy.

Tanya has given names of the doctors and books, GET OFF YOUR AZZ and research; otherwise, your points are mute. Or continue to debate but you have no legs to stand on because you cannot give any resources that says otherwise.

You want citations, ok. I will give them to u, but I doubt if it will convince u otherwise, but it will be my last reply.

“It’s not even probable, let alone scientifically proven, that HIV causes Aids. If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDs, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There are no such documents.” Dr Kary Mullis, Nobel Laureate for PCR (viral Load) technology, HIV NOT Guilty, Oct 5, 1996

“when Aids patients’ bodies finally break down from the effects of these anti-viral drugs, they say, ‘Now the virus has lost their effectiveness’. What really is happening is the toxicity of the drugs builds up to a point where the patient cannot stand it anymore. And, of course, they say it was the virus – rather than the entirely inevitable and predictable toxicity of these damned drugs.” Reappraising Aids Feb/Mar. 1998
– Dr Peter Duesberg, Ph’D, Professor of Molecular Biology, University of California; member, national Academy of Sciences; first to map the genetic structure of retroviruses; five-time recipient of the National Institutes of Health’s Outstanding Investigator Grant; and author of Inventing the Aids Virus

“The transmission of AIDS from person to person is a myth. The Homosexual transmission of AIDS in Western countries, as well as the heterosexual transmission of AIDS in Africa and in other underdeveloped countries, is an assumption without any scientific validation.” http://www.virusmyth.net, Sept. 2000
– Dr Roberto Giraldo, MD, specialist in internal medicine, infectious and tropical diseases, New York and former Chairman of The Dept of Microbiology and Parasitology, University of Antioquia, Colombia

45. Tanya wrote:

James,

Why do you want to be “guided properly” by “a couple of anonymous participants on a political blog”????

If you want “to work on curing [your] nasty case of naïveté”, then start within yourself, not with “actual citations”. Although I did provide you with names, dates, and resources.

“Wild accusations about syphilis-injecting doctors” – ***laughing hysterically*** I guess blacks were never lynched and the holocaust never happened either.

46. james wrote:

tanya, perhaps i should have said it’s a common courtesy to provide specific citations when you’re making wild accusations about syphilis-injecting doctors; you know, kind of like chapter and verse, if you were a preacher. i want the chapter and verse that says tuskegee patients were injected with syphilis. if you don’t have it, that’s fine too. you can just say so, rather than making lame attempts to insult, change the subject, or make fun of me.

47. james wrote:

incidentally, regkam2, i think we were both wrong about what constitutes a pandemic. according to wikipedia, quoting the world health organization,

“a pandemic can start when three conditions have been met:

the emergence of a disease new to the population.

the agent infects humans, causing serious illness.

the agent spreads easily and sustainably among humans.

A disease or condition is not a pandemic merely because it is widespread or kills many people; it must also be infectious. For example cancer is responsible for many deaths but is not considered a pandemic because the disease is not infectious or contagious (although certain causes of some types of cancer might be).”

i certainly think that qualifies aids as a pandemic.

48. Tanya wrote:

James,

Please understand that it is not my intent, in anyway, to insult or make fun of you. If you personally felt offended then I am truly sorry.

With all do respect, I am not writing a paper here. I don’t think my comments need to be accompanied by footnotes, but I do appreciate your quest and challenge for further info. You don’t have time to read every book and I don’t have time to parenthetically cite every book I may draw a reference from. However, I did give you names, dates and resources. That is sufficient enough for you to start an independent study, as to whether or not it is true. If you do choose to inquire further.

I don’t believe I attempted to change the subject, but rather elevate the subject, as Lynching and the Holocaust are perfectly indicative of the disregard for life that was prevalent in the Tuskegee Experiment. All the same in my eyes!

49. Tanya wrote:

PS- I think many people try to divert focus from the truth by making exorbitant demands for evidence.

i.e. – You don’t need a medical degree to understand that the heart pumps blood to every organ in the body. And if I didn’t provide a parenthetical citation for that claim it would still be very easy for you to discover/research on your own whether or not it was true.

50. james wrote:

tanya, now you’re babbling like a senseless brook. you know what, allow me to apologize. i shouldn’t have immediately jumped on your tuskegee remark as being “completely untrue.” obviously you are sensitive to that kind of confrontation. i should have taken a different approach with you and i am sorry. i was not offended at all by your comments, i just thought they were silly. i love information and when i thought you had something for me, i jumped at the chance to wrassle it out of you. i should not have been so eager. i won’t be again.

51. Tanya wrote:

James,

What about my previous statement do you consider babbling? I’m sure you just failed (among other things) to draw the correlation.

I am far from sensitive. I was not the one crying about being insulted and made fun of, YOU were! I didn’t say anything insulting towards you. And maybe you felt made fun of because my statements were stronger and more substantial than yours. I only apologized because it was obvious that you’re the ultra-sensitive type.

I think it is very obvious by the remarks on this post who the sensitive one is. You show your emotion in every entry.

Nonetheless, I think your problem is that you DO NOT love information and that you ARE NOT eager enough. If you were, you would have done the research and come back with something valid to refute my claims. Instead you just keep begging others to do the research for you.

You will never learn anything by having others do the work for you kido!

52. Tanya wrote:

James,

PS- I find it very interesting that after all this time you have failed to provide any level of support for your claim that the docs DID NOT inject those men, but rather you keep desperately begging for more proof after I already provided names, dates and resources indicating that they DID.

I consider this my checkmate. Sorry Whitey!

53. Regkam2 wrote:

Another point to add on to Tanya’s. James, Aids is not infectious. All 31 of the so-called Aids tests are plagued by non-specificity and false positives meaning thousands of people are being falsely diagnosed with HIV (even though there is no scientific evidence to prove that this disease exist). Contrary to popular belief, one can’t catch HIV sexually.

54. james wrote:

tanya, nothing i’ve ever read about the tuskegee experiments has said anything about any doctor injecting syphilis into the patients in study. and i’ve found nothing with the names and sources you gave me. therefore, i conclude there is nothing to be discovered unless you provide me with a proper citation. again, the burden of proof–since you are the one making the allegations about these doctors, allegations that i’ve never seen even discussed before–is on you.

55. james wrote:

regkam2, aids is certainly an infection:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0040256

and now i think i’ve seriously got to move on….

56. John wrote:

I consider this my checkmate. Sorry Whitey!

Isn’t that nice?

57. Tanya wrote:

James,

Ignorance is so Bliss for you isn’t it! So because you never heard it, or read it (I’m skeptical of what you actually read) before that absolutely means it’s definitely not true?

One thing you were right about was when you diagnosed yourself with a “nasty case of naïveté”.

If you failed to find any information on the names, dates and sources I provided you, then I have to question your research ability and where in-sam-hill you went to school???!!!??? (Maybe that’s why you kept begging us to do research for you, because you know you are incapable of properly doing it yourself.)

BTW- White people are very good at hiding their mistakes/flaws/evil ways. So I’m not surprised you’ve been oblivious to the true atrocity of the Tuskegee Experiment.

58. Tanya wrote:

John,

It’s just as nice as white people oppressing, enslaving and viciously beating and killing innocent, beautiful, clean and pure black people!

When GOD avenges us, you will probably be asking why.

59. james wrote:

tanya, rather than continuing to disparage me and the entire race of white people, why not just show me the source of where you got your information regarding tuskegee?

60. Tanya wrote:

James,

FYI- My burden in this argument was relieved on May 4, 2008 @ 1:51 am, especially since you failed to provide any substantial support to the contrary.

You have FAILED to refute me with any substance, on any level. Your argument is empty. All you keep saying is “I never heard that”. Get a clue kid!

61. james wrote:

holliston perni? you’re going to have to do much better than him. at least give me the quote, because i’m not buying his book, and no research library in the united states, according worldcat, is currently carrying his book, so i wouldn’t even be able to get it through an inter-library loan.

my substance is this: most credible sources don’t mention any doctor’s injecting tuskegee participants with syphilis. a simple wikipedia search will confirm what i believe to be true about the tuskegee experiment. if you have something different, from a credible–or even an incredible–source, i’d love to see to see it.

62. james wrote:

p.s. tanya, fwiw, i’m not arguing with you. i’m simply asking you for information.

63. John wrote:

It’s just as nice as white people oppressing, enslaving and viciously beating and killing innocent, beautiful, clean and pure black people!

Most white folks I know have not oppressed, enslaved or viciously beaten or killed any black people.

64. John wrote:

james, you are 100 percent correct in your stance on this issue.

There is NO credible evidence that any black men were injected with syphillis in the Tuskegee study. In fact, they were selected because they already had an advanced case of the disease.

Plus, it is somewhat of a stretch to say the “U.S. government” did this horrible thing. The study was a local one that at some point was indeed brought to the attention of the Surgeon General, but it wasn’t a big conspiracy masterminded by the president and Congress.

Plus, there were plenty of black folks involved in keeping the study going over the years.

Jonah Goldberg in the link above has it right. Tuskegee has been bastardized by black “leaders” and white liberals to the detriment of the African-American population.

65. Tanya wrote:

John,

You are ill-advised.

In 1908, Congress established the Division of Venereal Diseases in the United States Public Health Service (a government agency).

In 1929, Dr. Hugh S. Cumming, the Surgeon General of the United States Public Health Service (PHS) began securing funds to initiate and sustain the Tuskegee Experiment as a project for the Division of Venereal Diseases.

In October of 1932 Dr. Raymond Vonderlehr was chosen for the field work to begin the Tuskegee Experiment. They sucked black people into their evil project by advertising free “medical care” to all Blacks in Macon County, Alabama. Hundreds of Black people came to schoolhouses and churches for “examination” and this free “medical care”. Then the miraculous “discovery”/deliberate infection of hundreds of black men with Syphilis.

In June 1933 Dr. Vonderlehr was promoted to director of the Division of Venereal Diseases of the PHS and continued the Tuskegee Experiment until 1972.

PHS was owned and operated by and a department of the US government and became the The Communicable Disease Center on July 1, 1946 and is now, since 1970, known as the Center for Disease Control.

So for you to say that “it is somewhat of a stretch to say the “U.S. government” did this horrible thing.”, is ignorant.

66. Tanya wrote:

John,

You stated, “Plus, there were plenty of black folks involved in keeping the study going over the years.”

What black people had any power to keep anything going in the 1930s, 40s, 50s?????????????

67. Tanya wrote:

James,

You stated, “holliston perni? you’re going to have to do much better than him. at least give me the quote, because i’m not buying his book.”

What academic reason could you have to object to buying his book????

I have a feeling this would be your response to any resource I provide. Besides the more blind you and John are the better for me! Continue to sit in the dark and think what you want to think. I’m moving on!

68. Tanya wrote:

James & John,

One last question:

Do you really think it was beyond those men, men who were indeed prejudice, men who indeed had slaves, men who saw nothing wrong with “whites only bathrooms/restaurants/water fountains/schools”, do you really think is was far from their capability and intent to hurt and infect black men with Syphilis?

Do you really think these docs were too righteous to even think of doing such a thing? Do you???? What do you think those docs cared more about, black people/guinea pigs or their quest for scientific discovery?

Today countless guinea pigs and rats and even monkeys are injected with all types of diseases to study scientifically. Don’t you realize that back then black people were seen and treated as guinea pigs, rats and monkeys, in every aspect of life?

How can you ignore the facts and fail to put the puzzle together? My guess, you just don’t want to accept that you come from such evil roots. (not to say that you’re evil, but your roots certainly were)

69. Tanya wrote:

The Nazis used Jews as guinea pigs (infecting them with all sorts of stuff) in their scientific experiments during the Holocaust. Why is it so hard for you to believe those white doctors in the racist south did it to black men???

70. james wrote:

tanya, first of all, i have no idea holliston perni is; second of all, i barely buy books from reputable publishers, let alone micropress books published by a network of friends.

quite simply, holliston perni has nothing of interest to me. i read the preface; it’s pretty much a self-indulgent political rant, involving significant weirdness. i saw nothing there that would indicate any need to purchase his book. that said, if he had said anything reasonable about tuskegee, somebody would have quoted him online by now. do you want to be the first?

keep in mind, tanya, that the only reason you really know so much about what the nazis did to the jews is because they documented so much of it. the disgusting footage of malnourished bodies being experimented on and bulldozed into mass graves was shot by the nazis. tuskegee, as well, is well-documented. it was a disgusting breach of ethics and probably should have brought criminal charges.

71. james wrote:

tanya, i’ll allow for this: if the facts were not so clear in this tuskegee case, i might also imagine something worse than what really happened.

72. Tanya wrote:

James said: “…i barely buy books from reputable publishers…i read the preface; it’s pretty much a self-indulgent political rant, involving significant weirdness.”

James those words speak volumes of your mentality!!! So you admit to ignoring reputable words! You know everything the book is about, and can judge all of the information and resources quoted within a book, because you read a preface??? That makes sense. (lol)

The facts are very clear regarding the Tuskegee Experiment, but you are totally oblivious to it because you, quite literally, judge a book by its cover.

I can’t even begin to imagine all the valuable information and riveting facts you’ve missed out on in life, if this is how you screen information.

James you are by far the weakest person I have ever has a debate with! Just stop before you prove to be any more foolish.

73. Tanya wrote:

James,

Just to help bring you up to speed, plenty of people have quoted Perni, on a number of topics, related and unrelated.

But I wouldn’t expect a non-academic like you, to be aware of that!

74. james wrote:

tanya, despite your continual silliness and abuse, i’m going to continue to engage you in a decent manner of conversation, because, contrary to what you might believe, i actually am trying to learn something here–if indeed there is something to learn.

i came across a copy of the perni history on google. not sure if the whole book is available, but if you would be so kind as to direct me to his comments on the tuskegee experiment, i sure would appreciate it.

incidentally, when i said i barely buy books, i should have emphasized that i’m a frequent flyer at various libraries, where i can get just about anything i need for free, which is why i voiced concern about not being able to view perni’s book.

but like i said, i just found a copy via google–not sure how accurate the pagination is–but since i’ve managed to keep your attention for this long, if you could get me close to the information i’m looking for–perhaps by offering at least the chapter i should look in–we could wrap this discussion up, and i could certainly stop making a fool of myself.

75. james wrote:

okay, tanya, i just finished reading the tuskegee chapter in the heritage of hypocrisy. perni makes no mention of syphilis-injecting doctors. you really got me. hope you had fun! thanks for the goose chase; it was wild.

76. Tanya wrote:

Poor James, I’ll prayer for you my friend!