Marc's Blog

Marc's Blog

Video of the Day

131 Comments

Today’s video of the day comes from the O’Reilly Factor, where I discussed the significance of the Tyra Banks/Harper’s Bazaar cover.

131 comments

  1. Cézsar - August 8, 2008 4:47 pm

    **RE-POST**

    Well we know it’s not the religion itself she has qualms with: “But the Black Baptist/Non-Denominational Church is ridiculous, and I don’t blame that on the religion itself.”, so I’d be very interested to hear the answer to your question thatjonesboy.

    P.S. “that doesn’t mean I have beef with blacks”, “I know blacks are great people”.

    ^Me thinks thou dost protest too much. I mean really, what Black person talks like that?

  2. Andre - August 8, 2008 8:58 pm

    Uh…

    …and while we’re on topic, good job on the Factor Marc.

    *crickets chirping*

  3. jazzy - August 8, 2008 9:03 pm

    Tanya how can you say that “black people are great” when you said that most black people were degenerates during the post on Obama’s Father’s Day speech?

    I listed your entire post below, which was in response to Regkam2, to show the whole context.

    …..He [Obama] can kiss the Azz of Jews (AIPAC convention), but can’t say one good thing about Black people….Hmmmmm

    Comment by Regkam2 — June 16, 2008 @ 11:34 am

    What could he praise Black people for???

    The majority of Black people are degenerate. The number of Blacks acting the damn fool totally out weighs the Black professionals.

    Barack is not concerned with the few blacks he went to Harvard with, he’s concerned about the blacks in Harlem without.

    The Blacks who don’t even have a G.E.D. The Blacks on welfare. The Blacks on drugs. The Blacks who don’t take care of their kids. These are the ones he wants to talk to. These are the ones he needs to talk to.

    If he wants to elevate Blacks in this country as a “collective”, he has to focus on the ones who are lacking. He knows what he has to do to help his people and he will do it.

    Regkam, I am very shocked that someone as intelligent and ethnically sound as you would say he was “trying to appease to white folks”.

    Black people need criticism; they need to be called out.

    Whites don’t want us to change and start competing with them for jobs and homes. They don’t want Barack to tell Black men stand up and be a man, be a good father. Whites slave masters were the ones that beat down the Black man emotionally and separated the Black man from his family to weaken us “collectively”. Whites know in order to keep all Blacks as a “collective” down they have to keep the Black man down.

    That’s why it was very important for him to tell Black men get UP! (and not praise the few who think they’re standing when they’re really just kneeling, as opposed to laying down)

    Comment by Tanya — June 16, 2008 @ 12:12 pm

  4. carisma - August 8, 2008 9:37 pm

    Tanya,

    Nope not a 5%er. I don’t label my beliefs. I believe whatever is true and makes sense.

  5. Cézsar - August 9, 2008 6:58 am

    “Tanya how can you say that “black people are great” when you said that most black people were degenerates during the post on Obama’s Father’s Day speech?” – jazzy

    ^Well spotted jazzy. This thread is becoming a perfect case study in Afro-American psychology; more specifically, the inner conflict that informs the thought forming layer of Tanya’s psyche. As funny as her loopy opinions are on the surface, they are perhaps indicative of something much more fundamental to Black progress in America?

    I would really like to know more. Let the case study continue…

  6. Miriam - August 9, 2008 11:55 am

    Tanya,

    I do not know you personally. There are things we are all secure and insecure about and sometimes we take it out on other people. I think that you are right to want to defend your views, that is your right, but you also have a responsibility to respect the views of others without making them feel like they are beneath you or that they are lying – which I happen to think Dr. Hill doesn’t think will benefit him at all (what reason does he have to lie- he did create this blog for the purpose of honest dialogue, as far as people’s knowledge will allow).

    You don’t have to be confrontational to be controversial Tanya. You can challenge someone’s view,without gravely attacking them . But for others to listen to you, you should be respectful, and sometimes that means, agreeing to disagree. I am shocked by the level of disrespect that you have shown to others on this blog as a human being who would like to be treated with dignity and respect (that is what Jesus was about-utmost respect for those castigated by society- this is for those who believe in Christianity).

    Let us share our views in an honest and open way and as much as we talk, let us listen.

  7. Tanya - August 9, 2008 11:59 am

    thatjonesboy,

    “…are you referring to Black Mega-Churches?”

    Yes, absolutely.

    “How are you defining Black Non-Denominational Church?”

    I define Black Baptist/Non-Denominational churches as those that are heavily congregated with black people, but are mainly signified by black clergy. I think most people are familiar with the Baptist religion. The Non-Denominational church is, as far as I’m aware, a relatively new branch of Christianity, which is very similar, if not practically identical to the Baptist church. Most “mega churches” place themselves under this Non-Denominational sect.

    “Are you referencing congregations that are mostly Black or congregations led by Black clergy?”

    When I express my dismay with Black Churches, I am referring specifically to Baptist and Non-Denominational churches that are led by black clergy. It is the black clergy that I take major issue with and have great qualms with. It is the clergy that have shaped the Baptist/Non-Denominational churches into the sacrilegious repertory production it has become in the black community.

    “I have very little to no experience with the Episcopalian faith so I can only assume that some of your thoughts are framed by that belief structure.”

    Well, yes, my entire life is framed by the belief structure of the Episcopal faith, but there is nothing specifically Episcopal that causes my gripe with the Black Baptist/Non-Denominational churches.

    Episcopalians are the greatest people in the world! (j/k, kind of!!! ;) ) There are so many wonderful things I could tell you about the Episcopal Church, but in the interest of time, and with focus on the question at hand, I will sum it up in the words of Bishop N. T. Wright, an Episcopal priest, “If it’s true, Episcopalians believe it.” (Bishop Wright is a well know, very famous, highly regarded Episcopal priest who gives speeches and homilies around the world and often gives TV interviews and has written several books. He is exceedingly intelligent and exceedingly spiritual, and my homie!)

    I was born, baptized, confirmed, and communed in the Episcopal Church, and I do believe that the Episcopal religion is the most perfect religion on earth, and that is why I am a member. (If you can’t say that your religion is the most perfect on earth then why are you a member???)

    However, I do acknowledge that there are problems within the modern day Episcopal Church. For instance, the fairly recent acceptance of gay and woman priests in the Episcopal Church boils my blood like I can’t even tell you!!! But I digress…

    The fact of the matter is that I understand religion is a human relativity and humans fall short of the Glory. But in my humble (maybe not so humble) opinion, the Baptist/Non-Denominational Church is the most sacrilegious of all Christianity, and likely, of all religions. And here’s why…..

    Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches do not have proper alters.

    Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches do not offer communion every Sabbath.

    Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches do not engage in the serene reverence.

    Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches do not engage in ritual kneeling.

    Inter alia…

    All of which, all other Christian denominations do, and all of which the Bible requires of all Christians.

    Further…

    I know all of you are well aware of Rev. Wright, (not to be confused with Bishop Wright), Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and his sermon/sermon style at recent controversy. Well, I absolutely agree with Rev. Wright and everything he said, however, I am absolutely against the disgusting and deplorable way he delivered his message – In church, on the podium/pulpit, on Sunday morning.

    This is the norm for black Baptist/Non-Denominational clergy. They give non spiritual, non GOD Jesus focused verbiage from their “stage” on Sunday morning. They discuss politics and social injustices from the pulpit. This is absolutely wrong. The pulpit is strictly reserved for the Gospel, and Biblical, GOD Jesus teachings.

    Do I think Rev. Wright and others should address political and social issues with their congregations? – Absolutely. But it needs to be done in the Church rec-room during the week, not pedantically integrated as a sermon on Sunday morning. That is sacrilegious. (This is my greatest qualm)

    Black Clergy in the Black Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches, move their focus from GOD and the Gospel to selfish, self-promoting secular matters. These clergy are generally egotistical, material driven, wannabe public servants. They use GOD and the Bible to make money, not spread salvation. For a reason unbeknownst to me, the Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches are more easily infiltrated by imposters, who use laying of the hands and power of the tongue as magic tricks that generate jewelry/wealth, more so than any other religion.

    When you walk into these “mega-churches” you see gold trimmings and grandiose architecture, but no more than 1 Cross, and no pictures of Jesus. Not to mention that literally anyone can become the head of these churches, and they name the church anything they want without biblical significance. (I could list literally hundreds of verses against all this, but I too tired right now.)

    The prominent figure in these churches is not GOD Jesus, it’s whoever drives the pimped out Cadillac into the Reserved Rev. parking spot.

    “The message of many churches has been co-opted by American capitalism,” said the Rev. Frederick Haynes III of the Friendship-West Baptist Church in South Dallas. “A megachurch should not just be known for the traffic jam it creates on Sunday, but for doing something more in the community.”

    And if that isn’t enough, all the yelling and screaming, jumping, running and falling out, is NOT of GOD. It is not spirituality; it is showmanship, wicked showmanship!

    There is a set example for the form and function of the church, and the Black/Non-Denominational Church just doesn’t seem to fit it. – Based on the Bible.

    But of course, this does NOT include ALL Black Baptist/Non-Denominational Churches. There are some very good ones, with alters and everything!!! I just think far too many of them have strayed from GOD and the principles and high respect of GOD and have become black country clubs/social groups, so to speak instead of reverent houses of the Lord.

  8. Miriam - August 9, 2008 12:00 pm

    Cezar,

    I think that your attacks on Tanya, are just as unwarranted, but I try to both of you, even though I may disagree with what someone is saying. We do not always have to be on the defensive, but we can quietly and maturely disagree.

  9. Baffled - August 9, 2008 12:00 pm

    wow, correct me if I am wrong but this is Dr. Marc Lamont Hill’s blog right? After reading this thread I am of the mind that Tanya needs to get her own blog. Furthermore the Jesus that I serve would say “love your neighbor as yourself” and I’m not feeling any love up in here (sigh). Really this is why black folks can not collectively get ahead. We are so divided amongst ourselves that it truly saddens me… Keep doing u Marc. I lurk in the shop not because I always agree with u but because I always leave with another challenging perspective or outlook on issues. I respect that you take a stance and keep it unlike many people. Do not be discouraged my brother, keep movin’.

  10. Miriam - August 9, 2008 12:00 pm

    *I try to listen” to both of you

  11. Tanya - August 9, 2008 12:36 pm

    jazzy,

    Thanks for quoting me! I wholeheartedly believe what I stated there and I’m glad it was posted again b/c I’m sure someone new will read it here that didn’t see it on the original post and will gain something from it.

    Word to the wise:

    You and anyone else will be extremely hard pressed to find contradictions in any of my statements. From the moment I began to speak, my father taught me to never say anything unless I am prepared to have it repeated. Before I could even properly pronounce my full name, it was embedded in the deepest fibers of my being to never say anything I am not prepared to have repeated.

    Are there black degenerates? – Absolutely!

    What is a degenerate in my opinion? – As I stated, The Blacks who don’t even have a G.E.D. The Blacks on welfare. The Blacks on drugs. The Blacks who don’t take care of their kids.

    Do I think ALL black people are degenerates? – Of course not! I’m black, my family and friends are black! I think highly of myself, family, friends, and many other great black people.

    Do I think black degenerates are great people? – Absolutely! B/c they are BLACK!!! As I’ve stated a few times on this blog, I believe that the black man is the superior being. I believe that black genes and DNA is stronger and superior to the genes and DNA of any other race. Adam and Eve were BLACK, Jesus was BLACK! BLACK is great!

    There are definitely black people who act degenerate, and therefore, for all intense purposes, are indeed degenerate, but they still have those GREAT BLACK genes and DNA.

    If a man, any man, doesn’t take care of his children, I will assert that he is NOT a man! But that doesn’t mean he is actually a woman. That doesn’t mean he literally lacks male genitalia, that doesn’t mean is his not physically male.

    I’m a little disappointed that I had to explain this. I have made more than enough statements on here for anyone with mature comprehension to know that I love black people and think black people, my people, are great; but detest the current modern day lifestyle far too many black people have employed. I’ve said on this blog before, I am disgusted with the state of black people b/c I know the Kings and Queens we once were.

    As Audre Lorde has said, and as Marc has recently quoted:

    “I have come to believe over and over again that what is most important to me must be spoken, made verbal and shared, even at the risk of having it bruised or misunderstood.”

    I do honestly believe that only one person (The Fool) on here that has intentionally and unsuccessfully tried to “bruise” my words. I think you (jazzy), and many others may have just simply misunderstood.

    If you misunderstand something I have said, please question me, please challenge me! I welcome it. And I want to be clear.

    So thanks again for quoting me, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this.

  12. Cézsar - August 9, 2008 12:49 pm

    Miriam, I haven’t attacked Tanya once. She on the other hand has attacked damn near everybody on this blog. I’m just holding up a mirror to her. Her style of expression demands that. She, demands that. I suppose you think Marc also attacked her for pointing out her behaviour to her?

  13. thatjonesboy - August 9, 2008 1:26 pm

    Tanya,

    Thank you for your response. You make some very broad generalizations. In my humble opinion the qualms you stated are not unique to the the Black Non-Denominational/Mega Church. I also think you stated that their are issues you are at odds with within your church as well. From your post I don’t think we have the same view or relationship to God, but then again how could we? A relationship is personal. Anyway I disagree with some points you made, but not enough to argue them. I do believe the vices you listed are not specific to the Black clergy. Those are human issues and are reflected in all the branches of the church. I myself believe that there is only one true church. Denominations mean very little to me. Man’s opinion means very little. There’s a lot to your post that I find strange being that Biblically its demonstrated, allowed and commanded in the Old and New Testament.

  14. thatjonesboy - August 9, 2008 1:36 pm

    Social issues must be addressed from the pulpit. Christ himself addressed the social issues of His day in sermons/sermon style during His teachings to the people. Social justice and Biblical teaching can not be separated, but this might be were our viewpoints disagree. This is not my opinion. This is what I gather from Scripture.

  15. thatjonesboy - August 9, 2008 1:39 pm

    Tanya,

    I have another question for you, again out of curiosity. How would one have a picture of Jesus in the sanctuary given that no one knows what he looks like or do you mean as a symbolic gesture?

  16. Tanya - August 9, 2008 1:43 pm

    carisma,

    “Nope not a 5%er. I don’t label my beliefs. I believe whatever is true and makes sense.”

    Well you may not label yourself, but I bet you know a 5%er, and I bet you have been exposed to 5% teachings?!?!?!? So many of your comments seem to echo their principles. I label myself a Christian, an Episcopalian, and NOT a 5%er, but I believe pretty much all of the 5% teachings.

    As I mentioned above, Bishop N. T. Wright, an Episcopal priest and many other theological scholars have described the Episcopal Church as, “If it’s true, Episcopalians believe it.”

    So you know I’m going to suggest you look into the Episcopal faith!!!

  17. Tanya - August 9, 2008 2:38 pm

    Miriam,

    “There are things we are all secure and insecure about and sometimes we take it out on other people.”

    That is very true. But it does not in any regard refer to me! I have absolutely NO insecurities. I have GOD! I am too close to GOD to be insecure about anything. I know the sun rises everyday, FOR ME! I know the birds chirp everyday, FOR ME! I know the ocean hits the shore, FOR ME! I know that the trees bear fruit, FOR ME! If more people knew, understood, and believed this, any insecurity they have would rid them faster than the speed of light!

    Further, I have nothing to take out on anyone on this blog! I don’t even know anyone on this blog! Plus I live a great life and I am happy and abundantly blessed in all aspects of my life!!!

    I am not, however, happy with how some people live their lives and I am not happy with certain things in this world, and those things I speak on.

    I am very secure in what I believe is right, and I do have the courage and conviction to plainly and blatantly state what it is I believe, regardless of what others might think of it or me. I don’t consider any of my positions controversial. I consider them right! But I do understand and accept that others may view them as controversial. And I do respect the opinions of others, but I have no responsibility if they feel beneath me in anyway b/c of my opinions or how I state my opinions.

    If I say Jesus is Lord, that might hurt someone’s feelings and make them feel that their faith is beneath mine. If I say the sun is orange, that might hurt someone’s feelings and make them feel beneath me. I can’t concern myself with the ultra-sensitivity of others. I can only concern myself with the truth.

    I have only attacked 2 people on this blog – The Fool and Cliff. I have disagreed with others on here and have blatantly expressed so, but I have NOT attacked anyone else.

    I honestly believe that The Fool is a wicked malicious fool, and I honestly believe Cliff is lost. I’m not going to beat around the bush and pretend I agree with them, or try to sugar-coat my sentiments.

    I don’t put sugar on shit and try to feed it to people. I don’t try to pass vomit off as soup. If I think you are an idiot, and you have provoked such a vivid response, well then, you’ll get it.

    Many people on here have cursed at me and have been crude, and I don’t dwell on it or cry about it, and I never cursed back at them. I just civilly state my position. (Take a look at Chgosista’s profanity and attacks towards me, and take a look as my civil responses to her.)

    But The Fool and Cliff provoked my responses to them, and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    Again, I have not attacked anyone else in the Barbershop, but if you think I have, I challenge you to show me specifically where and how!!! Show me, please.

    In regards to Marc:

    To be clear:

    I have NOT attacked Marc, here, now, or ever!!!

    I did not talk about his mother, or bring up any personal, embarrassing or degrading moments. I never called him any names. I just simply questioned and challenged the man. I just simply informed the man that I truly believe he lied. If Marc can’t take this from me (a Marc advocate) without getting his panties in a bunch, he’s going to have a hard time making it pass commentator, and dealing with the enemy of his cause.

    I just can’t beat around the bush. I’m not that creative and I don’t have the time to waste. If I think he lied, I’m going to tell him straight out. I’m not going to try and find some kindergarten, puppy and rainbow way to tell him I think I might not believe him. I’m going to tell him straight up, I think that’s a damn lie and here’s why!

    Why would March lie??? I don’t know! Why did Rick Ross lie about being a CO???

    Marc said he didn’t see the commercial, I don’t believe that for a moment. Could I be wrong, possibly? But I don’t think so. I also think it is a lie when Marc said he contacted the producers. I also think it is a lie when Marc says it is “not a small thing to do”, in regards to getting in touch with the producers.

    All types of nobody average Joes get in contact with the producers easy as pie. Marc, the FOX News Contributor, a FOX colleague, can’t get in touch with his co-workers or thinks it’s not a “small thing to do”??? I don’t buy it. Sorry!

    Do I respect Marc? – YES

    Do I think Marc is a good person? – YES

    Do I think Marc lied on here? – YES

    But that doesn’t constitute an attack on Marc!

    I have $100 bucks that says they will refer to Marc as an Obama Supporter again!

    That’s how I honestly feel, and I’m not going to avert the truth to spear his, or anyone else’s feelings!

    If you think I “gravely attacked” Marc, that’s you’re opinion; and I respect it. I just know you can’t empirically or factually substantiate it.

  18. jazzy - August 9, 2008 2:39 pm

    Tanya,
    I wholeheartedly disagree with your belief in Black superiority and I still believe it conflicts with your belief about most Blacks being degenerates, but I do appericate you taking the the time to respond to my post in a civil manner.

  19. Tanya - August 9, 2008 2:46 pm

    PS – Marc, I find it shallow and pedantic that you would “snitch” on Barack! The focus was on you. We were discussing what you did, or did not do. Why would you say, “hey look at Barack, he did it too!!!”? (#67)

    BTW – I don’t see how Barack’s message to the Palestinians was different, opposite or diabolical from his message to the Jews! Anyone care to explain it to me? Seriously, I didn’t see it.

  20. Tanya - August 9, 2008 3:01 pm

    jazzy,

    Do you have any siblings???

    If you have a brother or sister, I am sure they have, at some point, done something you thought was incredibly stupid. And you might have shared with one of your friends, “Damn, my brother/sister is so stupid”.

    You might have truly believed that your brother or sister really did an insanely stupid thing, and you might truly believed that they were indeed stupid to do it.

    But you can still say, “Damn, my brother/sister is stupid”, and know in your heart that they have intelligence, and that they are a good and sensible person, b/c you know where they come from, the same parents/family as you.

    This is how I feel about black people. They do some degenerate ish, and I speak on it, but I still know in my heart that they are powerful great people, b/c I know where they come from!

    There is nothing conflicting about that!

  21. Cézsar - August 9, 2008 3:27 pm

    “You and anyone else will be extremely hard pressed to find contradictions in any of my statements.” – Tanya

    ^Um…ok…let’s give it a go…

    “Get use to that street corner and those colors little Nigger! (and I mean that in a fully derogatory way)” – Tanya

    BUT

    “I love black people” – Tanya

    “This is why ‘YOU PEOPLE’ are just going to spend the rest of your lives as the ‘have nots’ in the ghettoes!” – Tanya

    BUT

    “I know blacks are great people” – Tanya

    AND

    “Episcopalians are the greatest people in the world!” – Tanya

    “I believe that the black man is the superior being.”

    BUT

    “The problem is…the lack of morals and ethics in the black community. Period, full stop!” – Tanya

    “What could he [Barack] praise Black people for??? The majority of Black people are degenerate.” – Tanya

    Will the real Tanya please stand up! Your “Black Saviour” routine is making me nauseous. Your style suffocates your message, and this is where you’re failing.

    This whole moral arbiter role you are trying to play is not as easy it first appears is it? Many great men & women have come before you, tried and failed. And this is what you are learning here on this blog.

    “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.” – Albert Einstein

  22. Miriam - August 9, 2008 3:30 pm

    Tanya,

    When you say that you believe you are right, do you mean all the time? You say you stand by your convictions, you are entitled to that, but your being right (in your view) does not make other people wrong. People have different world-views, ideologies, and realities based on what they have experienced. It is fine to challenge them, but know that while you may have access to knowledge that other people don’t have, they may have access to knowledge that you don’t have.

    I say this to point out that you do not OWN the realm of the unknown- there is a lot out there waiting to be found out- and most of the time the people who find out are those who are willing to learn,to be patient, to hold their tongues (sometimes) and most importantly to listen.

    I believe that we all have insecurities- that does not make us degenerate by the way- it just means that we are susceptible to being moulded from the person we are to the person we want to be- that is what perfection is- the ability to know our imperfections, and then to strive for better- which often means learning from others. Saying ‘degenerate blacks’ is nothing short of very disrespectful and insensitive. In fact, it means that you are comparing one person to another with no personal or situational context (it is very dangerous, Tanya, sth Toni Morrison warns against in many of her novels).

    Just labeling something the “truth” doesn’t make it so, in fact you might be gravely wrong- I might be wrong about my thoughts on Dr. Hill, but at least you must be willing to give benefit of the doubt, when you have no reason to do otherwise. Are you are willing to take that risk (of saying your right when you might be wrong)just to validate your “superior” knowledge? Because that is what you are saying when you are not willing to concede- in public- that you do not know what happened when Dr. Hill was at that studio.

    I can’t judge you. I’m sure there is a lot that you are to be proud of. You seem like a fun-loving person. No one is perfect however, and I think that God (in my own view) has something in store for everyone, no matter what path they have chosen, we are all God’s children, and he first requires that we love one another UNCONDITIONALLY (that is what Christ did, even those who hurt him and then kissed his cheek).

    So, they might refer to Dr. Hill as an Obama supporter. That does not mean that he asked them to. People (especially in the media) are very stubborn (hint: Bil O’Reilly- and still Dr. Hill treats him with respect that he is due, because he is human) especially when they feel you are not entitled to a sense of authority that they have been given. What does constitute an attack on Dr. Hill is calling him a liar when you were not there Tanya (I know you know you are not God). What does constitute an attack is not being open to the views of others and using hurt, frustration or the many questions that you have (which I think are good)as an excuse for provocation.

    Does the Word also teach that for every response there is an equal and opposite reaction? Sure there are people that will attack us in life, does that mean we should feed them what they give us- that makes you no different than them.

    I say all of this, because I respect opinionated dialogue, and I think you have contributed a lot to conversations, but you have to be able to self-reflect- you should at least hold yourself to that measure. This goes for a lot of people (including myself). I am not targeting you. I also have made mistakes that hurt others. I just felt hurt by some of your comments (even though they weren’t directed at me.

  23. Tanya - August 9, 2008 3:51 pm

    thatjonesboy,

    “In my humble opinion the qualms you stated are not unique to the the Black Non-Denominational/Mega Church.”

    I know they are not unique to the Black Church, but I think they are outrageously overwhelming and far more intense in the BC than any other Church.

    “Man’s opinion means very little.”

    Fully agreed!

    “There’s a lot to your post that I find strange being that Biblically its demonstrated, allowed and commanded in the Old and New Testament.”

    How so???

    “Social issues must be addressed from the pulpit. Christ himself addressed the social issues of His day in sermons/sermon style during His teachings to the people. Social justice and Biblical teaching can not be separated…”

    False!

    Social issues ought not be addressed from the pulpit. Christ did NOT address social issues in sermons or from the “pulpit”. (I’ll quote the scriptures later. I’m to lazy now to look it up and type it.)

    “How would one have a picture of Jesus in the sanctuary given that no one knows what he looks like or do you mean as a symbolic gesture?”

    The Bible describes exactly what Jesus looked like! There are verses that describe Jesus’ ancestors and that describe Jesus specifically. (I don’t have these verses memorized, and again, I am too lazy to go get my Bible right now. But I do remember the scripture stating his complexion, features, hair, etc.)

    Again, the most significant turn off, for me, is that the BC does NOT have an alter, and Jesus said, several times in the Bible, that the alter is the Church, no Church of his is without an alter. And then, the respect for that alter, and not discussing politics or social issues from that alter, in the Church sanctuary.

    I’ll get back to you on Monday with the verses. I’m done for right now, you guys wore me out!!!

    I’ll holla on Mon!!!

  24. Miriam - August 9, 2008 3:55 pm

    Tanya,

    I have a question for you- Economists say that at any given point in time, the economy cannot achieve full employment because of the way capitalism and competitive economy works. Some people will be unemployed (5%). What do you think should happen to the people who end up in this bracket? (Most people on welfare in the U.S. are single parent white mothers).

  25. Tanya - August 9, 2008 3:56 pm

    Miriam,

    I just read your 1st paragraph! I can’t read any more right now, I want to take a nap. I promise I will read your whole post and respond later in the weekend or Monday.

    But quickly in response to your 1st paragraph I’ll say:

    A wise man knows that he knows nothing at all! (My dad beat that in my head from day 1 too)

  26. Miriam - August 9, 2008 3:59 pm

    Wow, Christ did not address social issues from the pulpit?! are you kidding? have you heard his parables? (his pulpit was everywhere he went). You should carefully read his sermons. Anything that has to do with how to treat others and how to live in society addresses social issues, Tanya.

  27. Miriam - August 9, 2008 4:01 pm

    but you don’t seem to display that you know you don’t know…lol

  28. thatjonesboy - August 9, 2008 4:14 pm

    Tanya,

    Read those Scriptures because in mine Jesus does comment on providing for the needy(Matt. 6:1-4), prejudice (the woman at the well), paying taxes (at the time to Ceasar) , divorce (among believers) and the treatment of children. These are all social issues. They can’t be separated from the actuality of living life. The social issues of our time are merely the lack of expressed genuine love and Jesus spoke directly to that. In fact commanding us to love one another above all else. Get back to me with the verses that support your statements. I am very interested in reading them. Mon.

  29. Miriam - August 12, 2008 8:32 pm

    Carisma,

    I appreciate your comment about religion and politics and how they get mixed up. However, I’m curious to know if you feel like they can ever be separated?

    After all, politics is a way of being in the world, ideology, and a way of making sense of our individual, communal, and competing realities. That is what religion appears to be as well, especially when we extend the knowledge of religion to include other global religions besides Christianity, Islam, Judaism (whether “minority”: representative of a small group of religions, or not).

    I personally don’t feel as though it is religion and politics that collides (in fact, religion under the banner of “righteousness” has defended the politics of war, exploitation, harm, and similarly, politics has defended the use of religion to create factions (every election season…lol).

    Rather, what gets mixed up are people’s motives and thoughts within societal (permeating) ideologies and in their attempt to make sense of individual, communal, and competing realities. If love is a motive, then there is a willingness to see ourselves in others and our religious practice (because I myself don’t believe in monolithic religions, I think as much as people are communal is worship, they are individual in their relationship or walk with God or whomever they humble themselves to) and our politics exudes that love. If the motive is retaliation born of pain/hurt or anger or dislike then our politics and our religion speaks that language and casts out love.

  30. Tanya - August 12, 2008 10:56 pm

    Ok, I’m back!!!

    Sorry I didn’t respond immediately on here, but I could barely keep my eyes open when I was typing in this thread on Sat.

    But I’m fully rested now and ready to roll; so here we go…

  31. Cézsar - August 14, 2008 7:17 am

    Episcopal Church to apologize for slavery
    08/09/2008
    By Tim Murphy, Religion News Service
    USA Today

    Continuing its efforts to address a practice some members call “a stain on the church,” the Episcopal Church will hold a “Day of Repentance” to publicly apologize for its involvement in the slave trade.

    Check link for more – http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-08-08-episcopal-slavery_N.htm

    Hmmmm.

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