Continuing its efforts to address a practice some members call “a stain on the church,” the Episcopal Church will hold a “Day of Repentance” to publicly apologize for its involvement in the slave trade.

Check link for more – http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-08-08-episcopal-slavery_N.htm

Hmmmm.

Sorry I didn’t respond immediately on here, but I could barely keep my eyes open when I was typing in this thread on Sat.

But I’m fully rested now and ready to roll; so here we go…

I appreciate your comment about religion and politics and how they get mixed up. However, I’m curious to know if you feel like they can ever be separated?

After all, politics is a way of being in the world, ideology, and a way of making sense of our individual, communal, and competing realities. That is what religion appears to be as well, especially when we extend the knowledge of religion to include other global religions besides Christianity, Islam, Judaism (whether “minority”: representative of a small group of religions, or not).

I personally don’t feel as though it is religion and politics that collides (in fact, religion under the banner of “righteousness” has defended the politics of war, exploitation, harm, and similarly, politics has defended the use of religion to create factions (every election season…lol).

Rather, what gets mixed up are people’s motives and thoughts within societal (permeating) ideologies and in their attempt to make sense of individual, communal, and competing realities. If love is a motive, then there is a willingness to see ourselves in others and our religious practice (because I myself don’t believe in monolithic religions, I think as much as people are communal is worship, they are individual in their relationship or walk with God or whomever they humble themselves to) and our politics exudes that love. If the motive is retaliation born of pain/hurt or anger or dislike then our politics and our religion speaks that language and casts out love.

Read those Scriptures because in mine Jesus does comment on providing for the needy(Matt. 6:1-4), prejudice (the woman at the well), paying taxes (at the time to Ceasar) , divorce (among believers) and the treatment of children. These are all social issues. They can’t be separated from the actuality of living life. The social issues of our time are merely the lack of expressed genuine love and Jesus spoke directly to that. In fact commanding us to love one another above all else. Get back to me with the verses that support your statements. I am very interested in reading them. Mon.

I just read your 1st paragraph! I can’t read any more right now, I want to take a nap. I promise I will read your whole post and respond later in the weekend or Monday.

But quickly in response to your 1st paragraph I’ll say:

A wise man knows that he knows nothing at all! (My dad beat that in my head from day 1 too)

I have a question for you- Economists say that at any given point in time, the economy cannot achieve full employment because of the way capitalism and competitive economy works. Some people will be unemployed (5%). What do you think should happen to the people who end up in this bracket? (Most people on welfare in the U.S. are single parent white mothers).

“In my humble opinion the qualms you stated are not unique to the the Black Non-Denominational/Mega Church.”

I know they are not unique to the Black Church, but I think they are outrageously overwhelming and far more intense in the BC than any other Church.

“Man’s opinion means very little.”

Fully agreed!

“There’s a lot to your post that I find strange being that Biblically its demonstrated, allowed and commanded in the Old and New Testament.”

How so???

“Social issues must be addressed from the pulpit. Christ himself addressed the social issues of His day in sermons/sermon style during His teachings to the people. Social justice and Biblical teaching can not be separated…”

False!

Social issues ought not be addressed from the pulpit. Christ did NOT address social issues in sermons or from the “pulpit”. (I’ll quote the scriptures later. I’m to lazy now to look it up and type it.)

“How would one have a picture of Jesus in the sanctuary given that no one knows what he looks like or do you mean as a symbolic gesture?”

The Bible describes exactly what Jesus looked like! There are verses that describe Jesus’ ancestors and that describe Jesus specifically. (I don’t have these verses memorized, and again, I am too lazy to go get my Bible right now. But I do remember the scripture stating his complexion, features, hair, etc.)

Again, the most significant turn off, for me, is that the BC does NOT have an alter, and Jesus said, several times in the Bible, that the alter is the Church, no Church of his is without an alter. And then, the respect for that alter, and not discussing politics or social issues from that alter, in the Church sanctuary.

I’ll get back to you on Monday with the verses. I’m done for right now, you guys wore me out!!!

I’ll holla on Mon!!!

When you say that you believe you are right, do you mean all the time? You say you stand by your convictions, you are entitled to that, but your being right (in your view) does not make other people wrong. People have different world-views, ideologies, and realities based on what they have experienced. It is fine to challenge them, but know that while you may have access to knowledge that other people don’t have, they may have access to knowledge that you don’t have.

I say this to point out that you do not OWN the realm of the unknown- there is a lot out there waiting to be found out- and most of the time the people who find out are those who are willing to learn,to be patient, to hold their tongues (sometimes) and most importantly to listen.

I believe that we all have insecurities- that does not make us degenerate by the way- it just means that we are susceptible to being moulded from the person we are to the person we want to be- that is what perfection is- the ability to know our imperfections, and then to strive for better- which often means learning from others. Saying ‘degenerate blacks’ is nothing short of very disrespectful and insensitive. In fact, it means that you are comparing one person to another with no personal or situational context (it is very dangerous, Tanya, sth Toni Morrison warns against in many of her novels).

Just labeling something the “truth” doesn’t make it so, in fact you might be gravely wrong- I might be wrong about my thoughts on Dr. Hill, but at least you must be willing to give benefit of the doubt, when you have no reason to do otherwise. Are you are willing to take that risk (of saying your right when you might be wrong)just to validate your “superior” knowledge? Because that is what you are saying when you are not willing to concede- in public- that you do not know what happened when Dr. Hill was at that studio.

I can’t judge you. I’m sure there is a lot that you are to be proud of. You seem like a fun-loving person. No one is perfect however, and I think that God (in my own view) has something in store for everyone, no matter what path they have chosen, we are all God’s children, and he first requires that we love one another UNCONDITIONALLY (that is what Christ did, even those who hurt him and then kissed his cheek).

So, they might refer to Dr. Hill as an Obama supporter. That does not mean that he asked them to. People (especially in the media) are very stubborn (hint: Bil O’Reilly- and still Dr. Hill treats him with respect that he is due, because he is human) especially when they feel you are not entitled to a sense of authority that they have been given. What does constitute an attack on Dr. Hill is calling him a liar when you were not there Tanya (I know you know you are not God). What does constitute an attack is not being open to the views of others and using hurt, frustration or the many questions that you have (which I think are good)as an excuse for provocation.

Does the Word also teach that for every response there is an equal and opposite reaction? Sure there are people that will attack us in life, does that mean we should feed them what they give us- that makes you no different than them.

I say all of this, because I respect opinionated dialogue, and I think you have contributed a lot to conversations, but you have to be able to self-reflect- you should at least hold yourself to that measure. This goes for a lot of people (including myself). I am not targeting you. I also have made mistakes that hurt others. I just felt hurt by some of your comments (even though they weren’t directed at me.